its not just about cheap labor cost, but good infrastructure, good supply chain, skilled hard working manufacture worker, stability etc etc. companies stay in china due to many factors not just one.
Africa is not a fit - neither is Central America (although the CA idea is a good one) - you don't have the skilled workforce or the supply chain. I don't know how to say this without raising someones feathers but - the workers in Africa - in many places are very difficult - also - we don't want to increase industrialization - industrialize non industrialized nations. This important for many reasons - not the least of which is Environmental.. 1.8 Billion industrialized - and it is consumption by this group that is increasing CO2 and Polluting the Oceans. Top Enviro risk is pollution of the Oceans - deforestation. .. Industrialization/Population Growth are 2/3 ... CO2 possibly at 4. Someone in Africa eating Bowl a rice a day is (1) in terms of consumption of resources. First world is (36). 36 x more China was at (11) back when I read this study - which said that if China was to reach our levels of consumption - world resource production would have to double. This is just China ! Unlike "Global Warming" - we can directly measure Ocean Pollution - and we are hitting bars .. 2 cans of tuna per week for example and you are over the Mercury Guideline for Pregnant women. Nitrogen into the Oceans is causing serious problems "dead zones" and "Sargassum" infestation. We don't want to go from 1.8 Billion industrialized to 3.6 industrialized (which is still less than half) - in any big hurry. Like the Central America Idea but it is just not doable.
Much of Central America has a decent infrastructure and certainly China wasn't always the easiest place to do business. The problem in many of these countries is corruption but with sufficient US pressure, especially in Central America, a lot of that can be ignored. Costa Rica is still a good place to do business, as is Panama, but the others suffer from bureaucracy. Outside pressure can alleviate this.
I've lived in Central America off and on for over 25 years and will be returning later this month. I'm in the tourism business in Costa Rica but, with the exception of Belize, have spent time in all of them. I know of no people anywhere who are more honest and hard working than the Nicaraguans and my manager (a woman) is a Nicaraguan as is my excellent lawyer, also a woman. The cultures in each of these countries are different in many ways but, all in all, they are very good people. Costa Rica has done very well and many of the children who previously had little chance unless they were in the ruling families, are now attending university. The same thing could happen in Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, though each of these have different but similar problems. But with 'hands on ' foreign aid they could advance in a generation or two and it would eventually be to everyone's benefit.
The issue in Central America is not their work ethic - nor is industrialization an issue. The problem in CA is lack of supply chain - lack of skilled labor force in sufficient numbers - political instability - and other things. As I said .. I like the idea in general .. I just don't think it would work.
If it worked in China it can certainly work in Central America. These are not uskilled people and have no idea where you go that idea.. I've employed many of them and I'd hire the men who did construction on my property anywhere at any time. They just need some hands on aid, not money sent to the ruling classes, but in the form of education, and preferably in the blue collar trades. They can also work to streamline the bureaucracy and end the nepotism and corruption there. Otherwise no foreign aid..
You are ignoring some of the problems such as political instability. China is not Central America - they have huge pool of highly intelligent and highly skilled workers - infrastructure - supply chains - manufacturing capabilities. El Salvador and Guatemala are failed states .. investors would not consider taking on such risk.
But China wasn't always the way it is now. That only happened when serious reforms were made. They are not failed states yet but certainly close to it and yes, I wouldn't invest in either. However it's a problem which needs a solution and just calling them 'failed states' and ignoring them isn't enough. The problems should not be ignored because, as we've seen, they'll continue to risk their lives to leave and create problems wherever they go. These are, for the most part, good people but they're stuck in a pattern of corruption and nepotism that will not change unless they get some serious help. Someone has to stand up for the lower classes, which is about 90% of the population. I think these people are more worthy of political and financial help than many countries America subsidizes and, over the longer term, will benefit America more..
Apple and other electronics manufacturers did not go to China until early 2000s. China was already industrialized - in certain areas - at this time. Further - you keep avoiding the issue of political and civil instability. This a big deal. It is not that I do not like the idea .. but, it is just not feasible at this time. https://www.cnet.com/news/a-tale-of-apple-the-iphone-and-overseas-manufacturing/
continued - (this has been an interesting exercise) which I think blends into some of our other conversations. This is from the Harvard Business Review https://hbr.org/2012/10/why-apple-has-to-manufacture-i It does not please me to post this stuff - I find it disturbing how far we have fallen but, pretending these problems do not exist will not make them go away. El Salvador - Guatemala ? - is just not happening.
No, in fact I agree that the problems are political, and that part is very stable, and the bureaucracy, which is what I assume you mean by civil. They are seriously dishonest and inept. But it is feasible to start at this time so that in 20 - 30 years there will be some serious improvements. Doing nothing should not be an option. I see no reason why the countries mentioned cannot compete with China.
that's false. The people whose economy is ground to dust are the losers. And the people that can grind their economy to dust and do obviously win. and in this case most of the people of China win because their dictatorial government will be destabilized. Huge mega corporations in the United States will lose but they should. Apple and Disney have single-handedly ruined both of their markets I hope this hurts them too The article might not state that but observation makes it clear. China started out in a worse position.
there is no place to substitute manufacture capacity of china. Vietnam certainly not big enough, also I doubt US will involved into apply pressure on S.America. either way the fact is manufacture hasn't leave china for S.america, they choose Vietnam etc instead for part of textile etc. not sure how many ppl in S.america willing to work 12hr/day, there also not enough labors, they need to be trained too that also take time/cost. you can't hired 25k trained labor/engineer overnight who willing to work 12hr/day. if it would be that easy, company would done it by now since china labor cost are raising fast.
You start out with a rather hard position to defend claiming "That's False" - with respect to "no winners in a trade war". It is almost universally accepted that Protectionism is bad for those who engage in it - at least to some degree. The destabilization defense of your position is a non starter- our Gov't is far more susceptible to the whims of the people. At the end of the day I don't seen an argument that shows that the US will not suffer from a trade war - in fact - your comment with respect to mega corporations argues for my position.
If you want to kiss ass with large corporations yes I think they have too much power. So a good blow to them will be good for America.
I think large corps have too much power as well. What does this have to do with the claim "both sides lose in a trade war". You first stated this claim was "False" This post then goes on to list some of US losers -refuting your claim - and you comment that you don't care about these losses. OK - my claim still stands "Both sides lose in a trade war" - and Protectionism is generally bad - particularly if it goes on for a long time and can be very bad if it is not just a war with one nation. And it is not just a war with China. Trump is making economic war on most of the world.. and that is a threat to US economic security in general - not just the Fat Cats.
your claim is false I don't have to prove it false you have to prove it true. I don't view them as us losers I view them as enemies of the state. Know your claim is dismissed. you made it without evidence therefore it can be dismissed without evidence. You can claim you're the loch Ness monster and that's just as valid of the claim as the one you just made.
You proved my claim (both sides lose) true .. citing the big corporations who have been losing. Farmers also took a hit - as did numerous other companies. How many examples would you like ? aside from the fact that just one refutes your claim "both sides do not lose".
that's false. That's us winning. Corporations have too much power. they will recover then flourish so that's a win also. a single example would be good.
You gave an example your self .. big corporations losing ... Farmers are losing .. the consumer is losing paying higher costs for goods. Lose Lose . Both sides lose in a trade war. Corporations having domestic power has nothing to do with the issue .. and in no way shows we are winning the Trade war.
When big corperations lose, the people and small corperations win. That isn't lose lose. Farmers face temporary hardship that isn't loss. It doesn't show lose lose.
Farmers have lost those beans to Brazil. They will not come back unless they are part of a deal. I just bought a knife sharpener because I saw it was a US company in Arkansas. Figured they could use the money. Got it home only to find out in the fine print it was made in China.
And you don't understand why tarrifs are being put on China? Then I guess there's nothing really to talk about.
Yeah, I guess I should have bought the Chinese ones. $1 each. https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...galleryofferlist.normalList.68.4e95363aWwagFS
