Christian florist v. homosexual couple in WA

Discussion in 'United States' started by Le Chef, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Then why do you cite polls as if they pertain to the 1A? I'm sure in the '20s polls in the South would have supported Jim Crow.
     
  2. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    Biblical scholars haven’t even reached a consensus on what most of the Bible means. So sure, if that give you some satisfaction that you are correct go ahead.

    Since you are such an expert maybe you should go replace the individuals that have spent their lives researching and understanding the Bible.

    It is still contradictory to itself, how can it advocate murder and then also be against murder?

    Some fun ones:
    “… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
    “… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

    “…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25
    “…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

    “This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10
    “…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2

    “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
    “I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

    And a final one:
    In at least three places in Romans alone the Apostle Paul says that we are saved by faith alone without works (Romans 3:20, 28; 5:1) But when we turn to James 2:25 we read: A man is justified by works, and not by faith only (James 2:24).



    Those are just a handful of hundreds of examples. But unlike so many thousands of religions before Christianity — and hundreds more that exist today — yours is surely the correct one...
     
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  3. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    What poll are you referring to?

    You mean the religious south was wrong? No, never — we seem to have a bad habit on being on the wrong side of things...
     
  4. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in third world nations.

    As critical thinking and intelligence grows so hastens the death of religious superstition.
     
  5. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Therin lies a distinct danger. Those who have real reasons for rejecting superstition invariably refuse to acquaint themselves with texts such as the Bible,Koran etc. Sometimes through a misguided adherance to political correctness they also avoid any direct criticism of so called holy books. There is a real danger the religious right, through increasing political influence (they’re fast taking over the conservative party in Australia) will see the barriers between church and state lowered. Therefore it makes more sense to try and understand these so called holy books simply on that old principal of “Know thine enemy”.
     
  6. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    So China is a third world nation? Christianity has grown there from about 1,000,000 at the time of the revolution to 100,000,000 today.

    Certainly wealth and education can provide a false sense of security. When the Titanic was struck by that iceberg, the men shoveling coal at the bottom level were more acutely aware of their danger than those in formal wear at the top level dining room.

    I agree on rejecting superstition, including secular ones.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  7. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    Most of the growth is seen in Africa but sure, communist China is another good example of following authorities unquestionably.

    In the end, America is the one that matters

    Interesting read if you have the time
    https://religionnews.com/2019/01/10/where-is-christianity-headed-the-view-from-2019/

    Evangelical support of trump along with American Christianity moving further and further away from the principals Jesus spoke of is the cause of its distraction here. Power corrupted.
     
  8. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I'm so sorry, but the Bill of Rights trumps all legislation, despite your hostility to religion, so if you don't want religious people who are aggrieved by legislation to prevail in court, then you need to get to work on repealing the free exercise clause.

    I did not mention Putin. Do you even know who Lenin was?
     
  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    The freedom to practice religion does not mean interference with law or against the rights of others. I am not hostile to religion, I am hostile to people that think their personal beliefs override the equal rights of others.

    Ah yes, I didn’t know Vladimir was his first name, interesting... don’t care about his fantasies either. Why are you so obsessed with peoples sex lives? Personal hang up?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  10. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Depends on the particulars of the case and who is on the supreme court. Generalizations are dangerous. You win some, you lose some.

    You realize that the cake case respondents (winners in the lower courts) made that same argument and lost, correct? The decision was 7-2 in favor of the baker, who relied on ... guess what?
     
  11. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wish people would keep their sex lives in their bedrooms and out of the bakeries, floral shops, and courts, so you are all mixed up ... as usual.
     
  12. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    You are indeed correct, religious law being imposed unto society is only a step away from sihera law.

    You will have to reference the specific case, if you are referring to Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 U.S. (2018) the court did not answer whether discrimination based on religious thought — in violation of state law — was legal or illegal. Instead it surmised that the baker "might have his right to the free exercise of his religion limited by generally applicable laws" indicating that a future case might side with the state but due to the state commissions adjudication “in which religious hostility on the part of the State itself” is a factor violates the "State’s obligation of religious neutrality" under the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution.

    They ruled he must be treated fairly — which he should be, not that he could discriminate openly due to his religious thoughts.
     
  13. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    Planning a wedding has nothing to do with the couples sex lives. But ok...

    Or is every wedding now a celebration of how the couple organizations themselves in bed?
     
  14. JessCurious

    JessCurious Well-Known Member

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    If we can force Christians to violate their beliefs, can we also make Jews serve ham, make Muslims serve pork?
     
  15. Baffled

    Baffled Active Member

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    Can we make florists fix your car?
     
  16. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member

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    No one is saying businesses should have to carry any type of product, but if a Muslim butcher have pork for sale — of their on free will and volition — they should definitely have to sell to black or Christians wearing mixed fabrics (if they want to discriminate they should make their butcher a private, members only club closed to the general public).
     
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  17. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Or find a non-religious protected Baker.
     
  18. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. Religious belief doesn’t exempt anyone from the law.
     
  19. mdrobster

    mdrobster Well-Known Member

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    That is my argument not theirs.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    No, that isn’t what cost them. The issue was decided over artistic expression. The bakery is still required to sell to gay couples for gay weddings, if they buy a cake off the shelf.
     
  21. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    That religious belief doesn’t exempt you from the law.
     
  22. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never said the contrary.

    You see that as a victory? The Baker WON.

    The Supreme Court wouldn't have worked that hard on the case if it were as simple as you claim: "Discrimination is bad!"
    Face it, you are b

    You're doing great. Keep it up!
     
  23. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    Always happy to correct you.
     
  24. Le Chef

    Le Chef Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, you're about as happy as Hillary Clinton on election night. Neither the baker nor the florist ever refused to sell off the shelf items to gay people. Indeed, both have a history of selling to gays. Hence my and Paul's calling out your strawman.

    And the Supreme court is more than skeptical about your thuggish "the law is the law, no matter what" arguments as they apply to provision of custom services.

    Therefore, you're either unhappy, or you're pretending to hold positions that you do not.

    It's okay. You'll always have your unelected thug friends on the civil rights commissions in Colorado and Washington.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  25. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    I see you have no idea what a strawman means.

    No they aren’t.

    I’m simply correcting you and educating you on public accommodation laws.
     

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