Christianity and Homosexuality

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    You are referring to idol worshipping. Not God. Therefore, God is God and homosexual acts are sin. A weakness in humanity.
     
  2. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    So, with that logic, it's easy to understand the homosexual sin mentioned in Romans chapter 1 doesn't include married or unmarried. It's therefore a sin for married gays and lesbians as well as unmarried gays and lesbians. Therefore, only heterosexual marriage can be sanctioned by God. Strike three and you're out of there!
     
  3. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Cougarbear: Perhaps. But, it's obvious that there was polygamy in the Church.
     
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  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Paul is not the arbiter of what is sin and what is not. Jesus said - let ye who is without sin cast the first rock .. Judge not - lest you be judged .. take the log out of own filthy eye - before casting that filth upon others.

    The good book imparts that a proper marriage is a Man - Woman - and many concubines.
     
  5. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well, this isn't Biblically supported.

    So then the only eternal marriages are marriages performed in the Mormon church? And what about non-Mormons who get married, "performed by those with proper Priesthood authority in the House of the Lord?"

    Well procreation doesn't always occur does it. Mostly due to the non-natural/man-made intervention of contraceptives.

    Where does the Bible support marriage as more than ONE union?

    Yeah of course, but that doesn't make it right!
     
  6. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    What a crock! Jesus was talking to the crowd of men who were sinners, not Paul. Paul wasn't there. Paul was the prophet at that time. The other apostles were dead except for John. Paul was the revelator at that time. He was speaking for Jesus by way of the Holy Ghost. So, Paul is the arbiter of what sin is. It was through him the Jesus spoke. It was his duty as an apostle of Jesus Christ to teach, preach and condone those who sin. It was his job to excommunicate if necessary as he was the leader of Christ's churc at that time.
     
  7. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Cougarbear: Doesn't make it wrong either...
     
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  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Poppycrock is all yours .. never said Jesus was talking to Paul .. What I said was you should listen to Jesus rather than Paul.

    While Paul may have had a Vision - and later voices in his head - he was not Jesus .. and some of the stuff came out of his mouth is definitely not "Inspired" .. so best stick with HeyZeus .. specially where the two are in conflict. .. and your perspectives definitely "conflicts" with the Jesus I know.

    but feel free to choose Paul over Jesus - is quite common round here :)
     
  9. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    And you are the final decision maker on what was truth and what isn't when it comes to what Paul said and what he wrote down? LOL! The Bible IS the Word of God. So, what Paul wrote is the Word of God. Whether it comes directly from Jesus Christ or from his representative apostle or prophet on the earth it is Christ's words. What your problem is you refuse to accept Jesus Christ's words through his apostle-prophet. Therefore, you reject revelation from Christ to us through his servants, the prophets. Why? It's my opinion that anything that doesn't fit your lifestyle you will reject as the Word of God. Through Jesus or otherwise. In other words, just re-write the Bible and toss away those things you don't like so you don't think you have to be accountable for.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Didn't say I was anything - never mind the decision maker.. I merely stated that I will accept the words of Jesus over that of Paul .. and as far are the entire being the "Word of God" - that is preposterously false in many ways .. starting with "Which Word of God" - as depending on the Bible - you get a different word .. Some writings are not even meant to be "Inspired" .

    I did not say I refuse to accept all of Pauline gibberish - some is quite inspiring - but what I said is that I give teachings of Jesus precedence over that of Paul when in conflict.
     
  11. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What about Satanists?

    Well they were the perfect manifestations of man, directly created by God. They became husband and wife because God wanted them to be husband and wife.

    What do you mean "dedicated for their purpose?"

    Technically it's NOT natural, if it involves the non-natural/man-made intervention of contraceptives. I'm not saying that it's ungodly either. It's something that I've always wondered about though.

    Both of which contradict God's intention for what marriage should be, as laid out in Genesis.

    So in order for polygamy to be wrong, the Bible would have to say something along the lines of, polygamy is wrong, or, monogamy is the only type of marriage?
     
  12. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    When in conflict of what? Take one subject that thread is about, homosexual acts. Jesus is Jehovah of the OT. Jehovah (Jesus) gave a direct commandment and law to not participate in homosexual acts. He gave them through his servant the Prophet Moses. When on the earth, Jesus did not remove that commandment and law. Just like he didn't remove the commandment and law against adultery. Because he said nothing concerning homosexual acts doesn't mean it's still not a commandment to not commit those acts. Quite the opposite.
    As to your confusion about "which word of God" the Bible. Yes, there have been many translations and making the words more understandable in our current language. But, the essence hasn't changed much. Not enough to question Romans Chapter 1. It's quite clear that Jesus told Paul that homosexual acts are still sin and quite unnatural.
    While some writings like Proverbs aren't "Inspired" like Romans is, doesn't mean the teachings are false. However, all of Paul's writings were to clarify doctrine, the Law and the Commandments to those who were falling away (apostasy) from the truth of the Gospel. The words of Paul are the words of Jesus.
     
  13. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) Already covered this mate - if you wish Levitical Law - then you must accept it all - and you don't, well I would hope that you would not as that would be scary indeed .. but you probably know little about some of the other things that you would be getting yourself into .. but we can talk cover that off real quick.

    2) "More Understandable - in Essense nothing has changed"

    Not even close - the text has been altered in many cases to make the text completely void of original meaning .. Deut 32:43 comes to mind .. you go bring that passage up in your Bible .. and I will give you the same passage from a few older Bibles. - the version that Jesus and the Disciples would be familiar with.

    There are a huge number of changes - some which are significant - such as the removal of entire books .. and the addition of whole passages .. such as the long ending of Mark.

    3) No .. The words of Paul are not the Words of Jesus - certainly not all of them .. and this is your folly. Many of the books in the NT attributed to Paul .. were not even written by Paul .. but regardless .. No .. Jesus did not Claim that we are to submit to Hitler - because he was put there by God for our own good.. nor would he .. Jesus rebelled against authority.

    Now .. It is understandable why Paul wrote what he did in Romans 13 - to make Christianity appealing to the Romans .. Smart move Paul, but to claim that this is "God's inspired word" .. NO . NO NO NO.
     
  15. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Cougarbear: Who cares about Romans 13? Not part of the homosexual sin. Nor does it have to do with making Christianity or the Bible appealing to anyone. It's the Word of God and blue print of his Church. Jesus didn't rebel against authority. Quite the opposite. He teached and preached the Gospel perfectly. And, until there is real proof that Paul did not write much of the NT, then we have to attribute those books to Paul.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A huge part of Paul's claims - is that not all of them are inspired .. and that is why we care about Romans 13 ..

    Once again you claim "The Word of God" - Yet do not address the arguments to the contrary in the post you are responding to - as if repetition of claim will make the claim less false.

    but we know it is a false claim - post Deut 32:43 from your Bible - which ever you like and you shall see the Truth the way .. the Light and the end of that dark levitical tunnel you wish to traverse.

    You are welcome to worship Paul as "The Logos" if you like - but when you are rejecting the teachings of Jesus on this basis - I question worship of this Idol.
     
  17. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Israel was created out of the spoils of WWI the British got.
    It's not divine, it's Tory.
    Had we had known Saudi Arabia was on top of the world's biggest oil deposit in the 20th Century at the time, it'll be as White as Australia and Canada are today, but we didn't - We just thought it was a baron desert and let a bunch of religious zealots have it called the Saudis.
    ...
    Israel was first planned to be in Africa out of British territories there; but Zionists in London lobbied Winston Churchill for their ancestral homeland citing The Bible instead and won out.
    UK created Israel, USA officially recognised Israel and that's why we got Israel; The Bible didn't predict it, someone read it and made it happen.

    Peter Preston predicted UK leaving the EU his book, first published in 1998;
    [​IMG]
    Inspired by the patriotism of his dying father, Rupert Warner uses his position to lead England out of the EU, and almost accidentally into the United States. Even more accidentally, he finds himself running for the Vice-Presidency, and who knows where that might lead.
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/816253.51st_State


    If the powers that be were to charter the course of world events based on that book instead of The Bible, it doesn't mean anything was predicted, it means it was copied from a book; The Bible didn't say it because it was going to happen, it happened because The Bible said it.

    It's obvious.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
  18. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    How is accepting Romans Chapter 1 against homosexual behavior rejecting the teachings of Jesus? What you are rejecting is the entire belief in revelation. That the Father, Son and Holy Ghost can communicate to us through his servants, the Prophets. (Amos 3:7) "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." - Matt.16:18.
    The "rock" is the rock of revelation. Peter received revelation from the Father that Jesus is the Christ. Peter would be the Prophet of God when Jesus died. Revelation is the key to the true Church of Jesus Christ. If any church denies that the heavens are open, they are closed to that church and those who follow. As Peter and the other apostles died off, a new prophet was called to lead the church until all the potential candidates also lost their belief that the heavens are open. Revelation stopped. And, the apostasy grew. Before this happened, there was Paul, the revelator that received revelation from Jesus Christ for Christ's Church on earth. So, the only reason to reject Paul is to try and silence Christ's messages to Paul in order to stop condemnation on one's self for their sins. You can try all you want to take out part of the Word of God, but God knows and will condemn those who do this. It's better that we repent and be good followers of Christ and accept the teachings of Christ through Paul.
     
  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By adopting Levitical Law - you are rejecting the teachings of Jesus - best stick to the Commands but this is only a small part of your rejection.

    Revelations is apocrypha - a very contentious addition to canon considered spurious by a number of Church Fathers - Nostradamas like fair - interpreted many different way - by many different people .. good that you have it all figured out.

    You welcome to idolize Paul all you like but for myself, I stick to the teachings of Jesus especially in the case of conflict between the two

    Last - you are the one trying to silence the teachings of Christ - supplanting them with the teachings of Paul - so don't try to pin your baggage on me por favor.
     
  20. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    So, you reject the Bible. You reject revelation that Jesus himself set up and established. And, you accept only the writings of the 4 Gospels and reject the rest. Paul is not part of the Levitical Law. He taught what Jesus taught and helped with continuing the Church Jesus started with Peter as is stated clearly in Matthew 16 that I shared with you. But, in order to avoid the sins of unnatural law, you chuck the entire Bible aside as thou Jesus came to you and revealed to you all his teachings. Is that true?
     
  21. kiwimac

    kiwimac Well-Known Member

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    We do not, if we are sensible, use the Bible as a geology text; likewise computers are simply outside it's purview. Why, then, would we make it's text normative for human sexuality when it is 2000 years out of date?
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who said I accept the 4 Gospels ? - or even the 3 synoptic Gospels for that matter .. but regardless of which parts I find credible - the fact of the matter is that the Entire Bible is not "The Word of God" .. for example the Long ending of Mark was not in the original text.

    Some of Paul indeed is "Levitical" - such as his angst against homosexuals - his angst against sex in general comes from somewhere else - as this is definitely not of the OT .. nor is his extreme angst against women. The OT had no problem with sex in general - all of the patriarchs enjoying a concubine or two .. and women were prophets and teachers of men.

    Jesus of course deviated immensely from YHWH - but he also deviated from Paul.

    I don't commit the unnatural sin you speak of - so nothing to avoid.

    You need to stop making things up and attributing them to me - in some lame attempt to demonize the messenger because you can't handle the message - you know full well I don't church the entire Bible aside. You on the other hand chuck the teachings of Jesus aside - especially when in conflict with your beloved Paul doll.

    Paul was not "The Logos" was he !?
     
  23. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Banned

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    Because Paul was told by Jesus that homosexual acts are sin, that is Levitical? No, it's from the Godhead. Doesn't matter what time period. It's a direct commandment in both OT and NT. And, our Prophets and Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ in today's world say that the Godhead still issues a commandment against homosexual behavior.
    Who cares about long or short endings of Mark. The truth is, you haven't prayed to the Father, in the name of the Son, to receive a testimony that the entire Bible is the Word of God so far as it is translated correctly. I have and have received directly from the Holy Ghost that the entire Bible is the Word of God. And, Paul was indeed an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ and received revelation directly from the Lord.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jesus did not tell Paul anything of the sort. Jesus had been dead for a number of years prior to Paul becoming a Christian . Paul never knew Jesus.

    What ever spirit told you the entire Bible is the word of God - was lying - so doubtful it was the Holy Ghost. and Paul never claims all of his words come directly from God.
     
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  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    So in order for polygamy to be wrong, the Bible would have to say something along the lines of, polygamy is wrong, or, monogamy is the only type of marriage?
     

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