Christians, do you believe Yahweh wants us to die?

I'm curious to know what your own personal position is on this. Not interested in scripture, but your own perspective.

Effectively, I want to know if you believe Yahweh intended every human being to die. I'm assuming most will say yes, but if you believe otherwise I'd be interested to hear why. Why did he design us to live and die (on earth) if he wanted us immortal? Why not just make us immortal to begin with?

What purpose is life and death, if it's going to be a zillionth of a zillionth of the time in which we'll potentially be 'alive' as immortals? Do you guys even grasp what immortal means? Because in light of same, 80 years on earth is diminished to nothing, and can therefore have no bearing of any kind on the great span of our actual existence. Make us immortal on earth, or leave out the earth part altogether and start us where we end, hanging out with jesus (or whoever is pulling strings). Once you start thinking in terms of eternity the premise that we need to have a physical earth life is rendered utterly nonsensical. It can serve no purpose, and there's no point suggesting that we can't know the purpose - that's like admitting it's an idiotic premise. A god would want us to understand ... and we don't. None of us do. No amount of belief or scholarship will cause us to understand something which make zero sense.

 

Since even galaxies die it seems silly to think that humans can live forever.

 

Indeed.


So we can extrapolate that yahweh wants and causes (since he allegedly causes everything, acvording to his plan) death. Does he therefore enjoy death? I mean it's entirely unnecessary in the supernatural scheme of things - and yahweh could easily have organised things so that death wouldn't be a feature of our existence. Life needn't even have been a feature - especially as we're talking eternity

We can only assume then, given our 'limited human understanding', that yahweh created death for his own purposes. Possibly simply entertainment. Alternatively? the original authors couldn't come up with a reasonable explanation for why a god would insist on our deaths, so came up with the fanciful idea that there is a mysterious purpose to them (our deaths).

 

why is it you want to know what other believe when it comes to Yahweh. yet you don't want his words, from the bible? if a Christians respond, they HAVE to use Jehovah God's words. because he told us to do so. this is because MANY would say..."those are your words". peace

 

because you all 'interpret' it differently. you even contradict each other. I want your interpretation, not your source material.

 

You interested in opinions from non-christian spiritualists? (If I had to label myself, I'm probably 1/2 Buddhist and 1/2 Hindu, but I don't "follow" any organized religion.)

 

absolutely

 

I'll try not to write a book.

I believe in a "higher power" so to speak. You can call it "god", but I find that term distasteful as it carries with it way too much religious baggage. I prefer "Source" but will use the term "god" to further understanding if necessary.

I believe that "Source" is in fact the ONLY thing that actually exists, and it is PURE CONSCIOUSNESS. I don't pretend to have any idea what it's origin is, nor am I sure I could even understand it if someone who "knew" told me. In order to learn and evolve it has divided itself into countless trillions of pieces including us and every living creature, here, elsewhere in this universe, and in other universes are one of those pieces. We incarnate here (and elsewhere) to learn, grow, evolve, and play a game. Basically, to "gain enlightenment". We have (or will) lived hundreds if not thousands of lifetimes.

So "death" is not the end, it's more like turning a video game off and reverting back to our "higher selves" for a time being.

FWIW, I didn't just pluck all that out of my ass, it's based on science, research, and insights gained through meditation.

 

To ultimately live forever.

 

Thank you for contributing

It does seem to me, though, that you're attributing very prosaic and human 'reasons' for existence in the physical realm. Which in turn necessitates a purpose on the part of whatever is responsible. And of course, this purpose (enlightenment) is itself entirely human - and speaks to our vain quest for intellectual triumph over our animal bodies - the curse of the intelligent monkey.

I would be naturally suspicious of anything 'learned' via meditation. It's a great tool for physical relaxation and quietening of the mental chatter, but if the knowledge isn't already in there, it ain't going to install itself just because we go into 'sleep' mode. That would imply external agency, and you're back to square one.

 

Well, my studies of quantum physics tell me that our environment is in fact a digital simulation, and every bona-fide quantum physicist I've told about it has reacted with more or less, "Yeah, no (*)(*)(*)(*), Sherlock." In addition I've done extensive studies on NDE's and past and between life regression. Now, a single event is a complete anecdote. But when you start to have thousands, and then tens of thousands of stories all of which sound remarkably similar, you have to at least suspect there is some "there" there.

Near where I live there is a fishing pier there is purportedly a MONSTER hammerhead shark named "Old Hitler". He is reported by people who have seen him to have so many fishing leads hanging on his mouth that it looks like a beard. I personally have never seen him, but enough fisherman and divers have that I give the story credibility. I do know that I was fishing there once and SOMETHING grabbed onto my line and started reeling it out so fast I thought I might have hooked onto a submarine. It got to the end of the line and snapped 100lb test line like it wasn't even there. Sounded like a gunshot going off.

(Disclaimer: This was 15 years or so ago, so for all I know he's been caught by a fisherman or died of natural causes since then.)

Yes, sometimes I just plain fall asleep while attempting to meditate. But I've also been outside my body and seen events 2,500 miles away from me that were later confirmed to have happened as I saw them.

 

1) what do all those thousands of 'events/anecdotes' have in common? they were all experienced and reported by human beings, and all these human beings had necessarily (by dint of existence in a social world) been exposed to the idea of the supernatural - often very specific and well described forms of supernature. the idea that elvis is alive is planted well before people in number start seeing him at the seven eleven. the only genuinely impressive reportage of a supernatural event of the type you refer to would have to come from someone who was deliberately raised to adulthood without ANY access whatsoever to ideas of the supernatural. they would have to have lived in a sealed cave from birth.

2) I'm afraid that no one is ever going to convince others of these out of body experiences until someone actually uses one to effect a practical result. anything will do. get winning lottery numbers. warn of impending catastrophic natural disasters. find a missing child. since all we've ever heard is 'I floated around and saw stuff on the other side of the world', it's about as convincing as saying 'when I'm asleep I have magic powers, but I choose not to use them just because'.

 

Well, there plenty of stories you can research yourself online should be so inclined. There are exceptions, of course, but after you've read basically the same story over and over and over again, well, for me anyway, that means something.

Well, getting the lottery numbers is a future (random) event. Regardless, it is my understanding that some standardized testing has been successfully accomplished. Regardless, what I experienced was real. I can't do it on demand. To my knowledge, this is the one and only time it happened, and it happened on it's own. And I observed a VERY specific conversation from 2,500 miles away that I later confirmed as observed. It wasn't something like "Hey, so how's the weather?"

Now, you have 3 choices. 1- Believe me. 2- Think I'm outright lying. 3- Believe the 1 in however multiple million choice that it was random chance. I can't prove it. But it happened.

The choice is yours.

 

Living on Earth is a testing ground so to speak. It is here that we make the choice to either be part of his kingdom or not. Without us having the ability to reject him then it would make immortality in Heaven pointless.

"But why does he allow small children or the innocent to die then since they cannot have the opportunity to accept or reject him", you ask?

God does nothing without a plan, if he takes the life of an innocent he is doing it for a purpose of which only he knows but it is being done to affect someone else in this world. However, we know that God will take care of that innocent and they will be with him in Heaven.

I am a very strong Christian in my belief and relatively young and healthy but God could give me cancer tomorrow with 2 weeks to live and I would be ok with that because he is using me to help someone else. I know where I am going and will be thankful that he found a purpose for me greater than what I could have ever done.

 

well, to start with I appreciate your input. but I must say, I'm sad for you that you believe you're too pathetic to find purpose for your life without 'help' from a magical sky deity. that's a terrible shame, in someone young. of course it's patent nonsense, and belief or not in gods and goblins has zero bearing on what we make of our lives. you know this (even if you pretend otherwise), so I can't imagine why you persist with the idea that you're unworthy.

as for earth being a testing ground, that idea is squashed by the two thirds of humans who couldn't care less about Christianity, and have their own, entirely different, stuff to deal with/be tested by. I think you meant to say that your god tests people who are into that particular mythology?

finally, thankyou for clarifying that Yahweh plans everything that will ever happen. did you know that some of your colleagues insist that your god gives his people free will? further, when something bad happens, Christians often blame mankind for bad things. clearly it's a mistake to do so, given your assertion that god plans all, and such events ought therefore to be attributed to Yahweh. just as when good things happen. otherwise, we have a bunch of Christians telling us that god only plans some things, and not others. and in saying this they render him powerless to know all that humans might get up to. not very omnipotent!

 

Yes it does mean something. It means humans are very prone to repeating things they've heard if there's some advantage to them to do so. It could be purely for the drama, it could be for attention, or they could genuinely be so gullible and programmed that any poorly understood physical response is attributed to spooks and goblins. The thing is, none of these repetitions occur in isolation of the original idea. Why do people keep seeing "grey" aliens? Is it because there are grey aliens hiding behind every hedge? Or is it because it's a widely publicised image, which happens to have caught the imagination of the impressionable?

I don't think you're lying, and I believe that you believe what happened to you was unique. I also believe that what happened to you was unique - because it couldn't be otherwise. YOU are unique, so anything you manifest in a state of semi-consciousness is going to be unique.

 

I live my life just fine and it has plenty of purpose outside of religion. You seem to be under the impression that if you are a strong Christian that we walk around chanting prayers and turn every single thing into something Holy or Evil.

That's not true, we live our lives like everyone else....good days and bad days.....but the difference is that I know if I ever get into some serious trouble that I do not have to face it alone. I also do not think I need religion to feel worthy, I have accomplished plenty on my own that I can be proud of.

Yes, once you become born again you start becoming tested I believe. If you never open yourself up to that then you will never have to worry about God and you can carry on as you normally do but the Bible tells us that God does not like his people to stray and that he will help him if they come to him, are sincere, and allow him to help. Once you accept Jesus into your heart you are not only accepting his grace but also the consequences if you wander off path. Now its possible to walk away from God and never look back but as long as you are still somewhat open to him he is going to be in your life.

As for freewill, and I love to debate this, it is true that God knows everything everyone will ever do and he does plan it out. You can not claim to be an omnipotent God on one hand then claim your waiting to see what happens on the other. However, we as individuals have freewill because we do not know what God knows. For instance, if I find a 50 dollar bill on the ground in the mall God knows what I am going to do and may use that event in some way to shape some event but I do not know what will happen yet. Right then I have freewill to walk past the money, keep it, or turn it in. Is God going to force a choice on me? NO, but he may use the decision I make in some way that he wants.

That is what freewill is. Its not God scripting your life, its God using the decisions you have made to alter other events. I may choose to take the money and turn it in and God may have placed another wavering Christian in the lost and found that day who is also given a decision to document my turning in of that money or to stick it in his pocket. None of this was done by God, he is simply using our decisions.

 

but now isn't what you're asking ,a contradiction? you say we'll interpreting it differently. yet you want OUR interpretations. but don't you see, if we're using our OWN interpretations, this is where the contradictions kicks in between "Christians"? and you're wrong if you say I contradict myself. because I come using Jehovah's words NOT my own. because as Jehovah told us to NOT lean on our OWN understanding. he told us he will give us the true meaning, IF we want it. people ALWAYS say don't use scriptures. yet if someone doesn't, the first thing the other person would say is. "that's YOUR opinion". we can't have it both ways, either we want God's word of the words of imperfect humans. sorry but unlike other Christians, I won't try to satisfy man ,(meaning mankind), by bowing down to what he wants and the way he wants it. if I can't bring Jehovah's words in which he SHOULD believe instead of what I think Jehovah meant. then obviously he's NOT seeking to learn. peace

 

No. He wants us to live forever. In his kingdom of paradise or eternal fire pit.
Just not with the body we had on this earth.

 

okay, I can see you're stuck in the holding zone on this. you need to work it through to the very end, to see the picture clearly. if god knows what you will choose, can you choose otherwise? If the answer is no, then you do not have free will, you have the APPEARANCE of free will. If this god entity has pre-planned precisely what you would 'choose', then you have not chosen anything. HE has chosen for you. If you cannot choose something he's not expecting, you have no free will.

I'm assuming you know the difference between the appearance of free will and actual free will, here.

 

bolding mine.

so, your god wants you to avoid thinking. gives you the biggest brain on the planet, then warns against using it. why are you not even remotely suspicious about this? do you understand that one of the keys to successful brainwashing is the demonization of thought? once a subject starts to think about what's happening, the hold of the tyrant can be dangerously loosened. the tyrant knows this, hence the 'don't think' threats.

I'm always seeking to learn more about the way theists think and operate, hence my questions. However, I'm no more seeking to 'learn' (aka, believe in) gods and monsters than you are. I'll wager you're not seeking to believe in Vishnu, or Odin, so you'll have complete understanding of why your scriptures are dismissed in favour of the experience of the individual.

 

but if he wanted us to avoid thinking. Would he have allowed Adam to name all the animals? The same names we use to this day. He didn't tell Adam what to call them. Just like he didn't tell Adam to can eve at first “woman” and even gave his reason why he called her that. So obviously he wants man to use their brain. Which is what eve DIDN'T DO. If she had used her brain, she would still be here today. Go didn't make her believe the lie of if she eats the fruit she won't die., satan or at that time the wicked angel did. And where is she now?, dead! I'm not suspicious of anything that I know isn't true.

When Jehovah warn us against our brains or heart for that matter. He knows our brains can get us to think badly, which would lead to bad actions. Even our hearts can lead us to do bad things. Surly you can't say you disagree with this! Because we ARE... imperfect humans. And wicked thoughts can pop into our heads. We're NOT immune to them. He made us even if many refuse to believe. So he knows more about us than we do ourselves. We all have certain beliefs, so if Jehovah God and Jesus don't expect people to believe in them, why should I? And you're right I don't believe in MANY things others believe in. but it's because I know where it stems from. peace

 

OMFG....I thought you were kidding until you sent me a PM trying to push Jehovah on me.

Firstly...Adam did not name the animals, and we find new ones regularly and name them when we do.
Secondly...Eve was not the first woman even in your own damn books, ever heard of Lilith?

 

Well technically she was a demon so that doesn't really count.

 

this is why we warn you to stay away from drugs, kids!

meantime ...... in the interests of thread movement, I'll play along:

1) what does 'adam naming animals' have to do with 'reason is the enemy of faith'?
2) eve is dead because the adam and eve myth pertains to characters who lived 6000 years ago. or are you suggesting Yahweh killed her? killed her for doing precisely what he'd planned she'd do.
3) if Yahweh knows we'll 'think badly', it'd be because he created us to do so. He planned it from the outset. if you're saying he didn't plan it and create it, why do you call him god?
4) why do you think faith is protection from "wicked thoughts"? it sure isn't protection from insanity, or stupidity.
5) how old are you, roughly? are you an adult?