Civil war Books From the Southern Perspective

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by 1stvermont, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    From Union to a Consolidated Nation

    In saving the union, I have destroyed the Republic.”
    -Abraham Lincoln


    Before the war a union a collection of states... after the war we began to speak of a nation”
    -Ken Burns


    Before the war, it was said "the United States are." Grammatically, it was spoken that way and thought of as a collection of independent states. And after the war, it was always "the United States is," as we say today without being self-conscious at all. And that sums up what the war accomplished. It made us an "is."
    -Shelby Foote author of “The Civil War: A Narrative.”

    “[After the war] the old decentralized federal republic became a new national polity that taxed the people directly, created an internal revenue bureau to collect these taxes, expanded the jurisdiction of federal courts, established a national currency and a national banking structure. The United States went to war in 1861 to preserve the Union; it emerged from war in 1865 having
    created a nation. Before 1861 the two words "United States" were generally used as a plural noun: "The United States are a republic." After 1865 the United States became a singular noun. The loose union of states became a nation”
    -James M. McPherson


    After the civil war meaningful states rights ended and our constitutional republic along with it. Lincoln and the civil war began a new American empire that made states and the people submissive and no longer decided their own fate, were no longer sovereign, and no longer self governing people but were now subject to the almighty federal government who was willing to force the people into its mold, or destroy them. Walt Witman said the result of the war was “Consent to our mandates or be shot.” Instead of the founders view that government was to protect man's unalienable God given rights and liberty.

    The war “Destroyed voluntary union of the founders and made all Americans servants rather than masters of their own government... transformed the American government from a constitutional republic to a consolidated empire”
    -Thomas Dilorenzo author of The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked


    Lincolns northern opponent Stephen Douglas said of Lincolns political goals as wanting to impose “On the nation a uniformity of local laws and institutions and a moral homogeneity dictated by a central government” That election was said by historians to be a contest between “One consolidated empire [ Federalist/Whigs] and “confederacy of sovereign and equal states of Jefferson and Jackson”, “Lincoln goes for consolidation and uniformity in our government while I go for maintaining the confederation of the sovereign states” said Douglas. The changes came fast, just a few years after the war Harvard professor George Tickmon stated “It does not seem to me as if I were living in the country in which I was born.” Abolitionist Henry Ward Beecher in a speech in conquered Charleston South Carolina said “The nation, not the states, is sovereign.”

    “To nationalize as much as possible, even currency, so as to make men love country first before their states, all private interest, local interests, all banking interests, the interests of individuals everything should be subordinate now to the interests of the government”
    -Senator John Sherman of Ohio


    “That plural reading of the components of the Union had effectively been demolished, never to have meaning again, by a war that established a unitary polity governed from Washington that put an end, in all practical senses, to the idea of independent, sovereign states and individual states’ rights. There was to be one country, indivisible, and hereafter the language it uses is, fittingly, “the United States is.”
    -Kirkpatrick Sale Emancipation Hell: The Tragedy Wrought by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation


    A war witch crushed the south, destroyed states rights, and transformed the concurrent republic into an absolutist nation.”
    -From Founding Fathers to Fire Eaters: The Constitutional Doctrine of States' Rights in the Old South 2018by James Rutledge Roesch



    Changes to the Constitution


    The civil war changed who we are. It made everything different”
    --Dennis Frye Chief Historian at Harpers Ferry National Historical Park


    Freedom of speech and freedom of the press, precious relics of former history, must not be construed too largely.”
    -General William T. Sherman


    The civil war marked the beginnings of an all powerful federal government in America, something the founding fathers did all in their powers to stop. With the Lincoln administration and with the passing of the 14th15th amendment soon after the war. We moved further to a more centralized government and denied states sovereignty. It destroyed the concept of delegated and reserved powers, gone was the concept of government authority voluntary from the people. It changed America from a constitution of states to promote common interest, to a national cohesion controlling states by a centralized government.

    “A great centralizing force has been set in motion”
    -Leonard Curry


    The war destroyed the limited government created by the founding fathers and made possible a revolution replacing the old government, based as it was on limitations of power, with a new structure formed from consolidated power.”
    -Dr Charles T Pace Lincoln as he Really was Shotwell Publishing Columbia South Carolina 2018


    11 of the 12 antebellum amendments limited federal powers. 6 of the next 7 would increase federal power at the exspence of the states as the political power shifted from south to north. In antebellum America each state acted for the most part as its own country. People saw themselves as citizens of the state first, country second.

    "In 1861 there was no such thing as a "American citizens" individuals were citizens of their sovereign states."
    -Jerry Brewer Dismantling the Republic 2017


    Under Lincoln it is said the reverse happened. Northern states objected as well to this transformation as new Jersey said of the amendments and changes in government philosophy

    “Transfers to congress the whole control of the right of suffrage in the state.. a power which they [the states] have never been willing to surrender to the general government, and which was reserved to the states as a fundamental principle on which the constitution itself was constructed the principles of self government”

    Later the federal government would take more power from the states with the passing of the 17th amendment. Today the tenth amendment is completely ignored. Senators instead of being appointed by the states, now do the bidding of fund raisers from around the country and political party allies in D.C

    The civil war called forth a new constitutional order...the principles of this legal regime are so radically different from our original constitution drafted in 1787, that they deserve to be reorganized as a second American constitution”
    -George R Fletcher Columbia University Law Professor


    You will not be able to find any historian who will claim the government we are under today in America, is similar to that of Americans under the antebellum government.

    Today's federal government is considerably at odds with that envisioned by the framers of the constitution”
    -John Olin George Mason University


    Many think our present federal government is the same one our founders fathers established. Nothing could be further from the truth....after the [civil war].... government power over the people underwent a radical change in the limits of government authority”
    -James and Walter Kennedy The South Was Right

    Union victory in the war destroyed the southern vision of America and ensured that the northern vison would become the American vision. Until 1861, however, it was the north that was out of the mainstream, not the south”
    -James McPherson Battle Cry of freedom
     
  2. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Supreme Court Reigns Supreme


    To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions [is] a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy.”
    – Thomas Jefferson letter to William C. Jarvis, 1820



    “…the opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves in their own sphere of action but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch.”
    – Thomas Jefferson



    The war between the states established... this principle, that the federal government is, through its courts, the final judge of its own powers”
    -President Woodrow Wilson


    The federal government made itself the sole arbitrator of constitutionality, through the supreme court. Not surprisingly the federal government has used this role to decide that there are in fact no limits to its power. Consequentially Americans are no longer sovereign over their government... they fought a war of secession against just such an empire. To than turn around and create a similar empire of their own would have been the height of absurdity”
    -Thomas J Dilorenzo Lincoln Unmasked


    In the antebellum period the supreme court did not have the final say in any matter but was to simply judge its opinion. To imagine the founders as fighting the largest military in the world [Great Britain] to create a new government to protect life and liberty to than entrust everyone's liberty to a few politically appointed judges stretches the imagination. There was no three coequal branches, [won't be found anywhere in constitution] in antebellum America judges could not create policy, it had nor authority to enforce its rulings, they did not have lifetime appointments, were not independent, and did not have final say on constitutionality of a law. As the federalist papers say the legislative has the most authority and the Judiciary “Is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power....it may be truly said to have neither force nor will.” When President Jackson was informed the supreme court decision went against his policy he said “Thank you for your opinion, but my opinion is different and equally valid.” The sovereign states courts had the right to review and judge federal court rulings and law when they overstepped and could override unconstitutional rulings.


    With No Check on Federal Government From the States = Rapid Growth and Power of Federal Government

    When all government domestic and forighn in little as in great things shall be drawn to Washington as the source of all power. It will render powerless the checks provided of one government [states] on another, and will become as vegal and oppressive as the government which we have separated”
    -Thomas Jefferson

    The united states of America became a very different kind of nation than it had been.... with manufacture and banking as the economic driving forces, with a powerful, dominating central government replacing the looser, locally oriented confederation put into place by the founding fathers.” -Dr Charles T Pace Lincoln as he Really was Shotwell Publishing Columbia South Carolina 2018


    The US government has grown into a monstrous tyrannical body that would not even by reorganized by its founders”
    -Lochlainn Seabrook The Constitution Of The Confederate States Of America Explained


    With the death of state sovereignty and transformation of the government by Lincoln. The federal government now has sole power to interpret its own power and forcing the states and American people to comply as it has no other authority. It has become as Mike Church said “Mordor on the Potomac” Not only have the states been reduced and put under authority of the federal government, but the 9th and 10th amendments are ignored almost completely in today's politics. Without that check on government, our checks and balances and separation of powers can only slow the federal expansion. With all power at the capital, elites and interest groups control politicians to their bidding. Than you end up with self serving politicians instead of servants of we the people. The constitution would be helpless against a centralized power. Jeffersonian democracy is all but gone in American politics.


    The war . . . has tended, more than any other event in the history of the country to militate against the Jeffersonian idea, that “the best government is that which governs least.”
    -Richard Yates Illinois Governor , January 2, 1865


    Lincoln...undermined the constitutional safeguards of freedom as he opened the way to centralized government with all its political evils”
    -Edmund Wilson


    Hapless would be the condition of these states if their only alternative lay between submission to a government of self construed, or, in other words, unlimited powers and the certainty of coercion.”
    -J.K Spauling State Sovereignty and the Doctrine of Cohesion 1860


    With no check from the states, President Lincoln violated the constitution in multiple ways, ran up 2.5 billion in national dept, distributed public lands, printed national currency, instituted a national bank, “Standardized fiscal transactions across state lines for the first time”

    [To help conform the public to go along with national banking Lincoln added a 10% tax to state banks to help impose a national bank monopoly [The power to tax is the power to destroy] and hired Jay Cooke to use newspapers ads to attack state chartered banks, so national bank would dominate. Those who supported national banking such as Senator John Sherman of Ohio [Brother of General Sherman] said “the permanently increased government power embodied in the bill,” would foster “a sentiment of nationality.” This “A nationalized money supply helped transform America from a constitutional republic to an empire”]collected numerous forms of taxes “Taxes on everything imaginable” From perfume, playing cards to bowling to going to the theater , instituted a income tax, created the bureau of internal revenue [ Early IRS with 7,000 employees in 63] created the department of agricultural, instituted a federal draft, facilitated the industrial revolution in America at the exspence of agrarian lifestyle, laid massive rail, founded the transcontinental railroad, gave 58 million acres to rail companies etc.

    “Furry of new laws, regulations, and bureaucracies created by president Lincoln and the republican party”
    -Thomas J Dilorenzo


    the republican dominated congress passed a series of measures that transformed the national economic landscape for all time....significtley expanded the role and fiscal reach of the government and helped create a national economy that dwarfed its predecessors...When Lincoln took office, the main role of the federal government was to deliver mail. The government also foreign policy, defended the frontier with a small army and collected import duties, but primarily Washington was a post office..by the end of the war, the government supported an army of a million men, a national debt of 2.5 billion, distributed public lands, printed a national currency, and collected an array of internal taxes...with the south absent....republicans passed the pacific railway act...created a country more closely resembling a national state than a dispersed region...the Lincoln administration gave away 158 million acres to railroads, passage for the first time in american history of a progressive income tax raising 55 million during the war, the government also floated large bond issues, printed 150 million I greenbacks. The national bank act of 1863 resurrected the Hamiltonian idea of a national banking system... This transformation in national power overshadowed the liberation of four million slaves in terms of its long range impact on all Americans”
    - David Goldfeild War is good for Business Americas civil war Magazine



    [The civil war was] “The fiery crucible which the old nation was melted down, and out of which modern America was poured”
    -Historian William Hess


    For more constitution violating, government expansion, union transforming efforts by Lincoln see here.

    The Lincoln Myth- was Abraham Lincoln America greatest President?

    Lincoln myth- Lincoln Saved the American Republic and the Constitution

    In the American government system states rights and liberty could not be separated”
    -Clyde Wilson Nullification Reclaiming consent of the Governed


    “Lincoln...undermined the constitutional safeguards of freedom as he opened the way to centralized government with all its political evils”
    -Edmund Wilson


    Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers, and destroyers press upon them so fast, that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon the American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour. The revenue creates pensioners, and the pensioners urge for more revenue. The people grow less steady, spirited, and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependents and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity, and frugality, become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole society. “
    John Adams, Novanglus Letters, 1774


    The primary result of the Republican Party victory was permanent instalment of Hamilton’s blessings—a national debt, a protected market for industrialists, and a collusion between bankers and politicians”
    -Clyde Wilson Lies my Teacher told me



    Deification of the State

    The people were no longer the center, the government was”
    -Clyde Wilson From Union to Empire


    "Abraham Lincoln personified every trait that opposed to the republic founders under the Constitution of 1787."
    -Jerry Brewer Dismantling the Republic 2017


    Starting with Lincoln and following generations of politicians led to what professor Delorenzo calls the “Deification of the state.” The civil war started in America the philosophy that the federal government is the ultimate authority. This has led to rapid growth in the federal government, because there is no higher authority, than the government thinks itself god. There is nothing it cannot touch. It can take away any right from anyone. It thinks it must not just solve all the ills in the country, it must control all modes of behavior and set its own standards. It will regulate the lives to conform to its own image that is beneficial to itself, resulting in more power to itself. People became servants of the state rather than the government servants of its citizens.

    Liberty became less important than the well being of government”
    -Al Benson Jr and Walter Kennedy Lincolns Marxists


    States rights was suppressed by force, and the American idea of consent of the governed was replaced by the European idea of obedience to the state”
    -Clyde Wilson From Union to Empire


    By contrast, now all “the land of the free and the home of the brave” bends the knee to Washington D.C no matter how outrageous or oppressive its orders.”
    -James Rutledge Roesch From Founding Fathers to Fire Eaters The Constitutional Doctrine of States Rights in the old South Shotwell publishing


    This is in drastic contrast to the founders who's view was Governments are instituted among men to protect those unalienable rights that come from a higher authority than man [government] that is god. The founders constantly acknowledged that biblical higher power that they were accountable to. Man was not the ultimate authority in fact all men were created equal. This philosophy that reorganizes a creator, produces a limited government. Government is not the ultimate authority but is to protect all citizens god given liberty. It also believes that man should alter and abolish a government that is destructive to those rights of the people. This was stomped out by the civil war, the government is ultimate authority, not the citizens, nor even god.

    The civil war was that the right to govern is paramount over the right to live, that man is made for government, rather than that government is made for man, and that for men to claim the right of self government is to deserve and incure the death penalty”
    -Charles L.C minor The real Lincoln 1928


    "What we call liberty our founders called bondage...we have not freed the slaves we have extended the plantation, know, we are all slaves"
    -Peter Marshall JR The Great War Debate


    Lincoln “Remade America”
    -Gary Wills


    The real revolution in that country was not what is called the revolution, but is a consequence of the civil war.”
    -T S Eliot 1949


    Overthrow the present form of Federal-republican government, and to establish a strong centralized government in its stead...national banks, bankrupt laws, a vast and permanent public debt, high tariffs, heavy direct taxation, enormous expenditure, gigantic and stupendous peculation . . . No more state lines, no more state governments, but a consolidated monarchy or vast centralized military despotism.” “instead of crushing out the rebellion,” the “effort has been to crush out the spirit of liberty” in the Northern states.
    - Clement L. Vallandigham D-Ohio spoke of the reason for Lincolns war 1863



    Yet with government run education, the American people

    Have been taught to celebrate this betrayal of the founding fathers..The vast bulk of Americans proceed through twelve years of government funded education [by an interesting coincidence] teaches them all about the wonders of federal government, how lost they'd be without it, and how foolish it would be to worry that the constitution might not authorize most of what it does. Portrayed as a benevolent force innocently pursuing the common good....cost less benefits granted by selfless crusaders for justice”
    -Tomas Woods Nullification How to Resist federal tyranny in the 21st Century


    “The American public was also relentlessly propagandized by the government and its private sector accomplices, such as Jay Cooke, into believing that it could now look to the federal government for solutions to its problems. This made it easier for future generations of politicians to convince the American public to acquiesce in further expansions of government and further restrictions on personal liberty that would have caused the founding fathers to reach for their swords”
    -Thomas Dilorenzo The Real Lincoln
     
  3. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    No other words. Just the ones I wrote. Go read some history. Not a bunch of quotes on a forum. Not an opinion piece that tells you what you want to hear. Actual, proper, documented history. I haven't seen the slightest evidence you would know 'what history is' if it ran you over in the street & then reversed back over you.

    I spent years learning how to read & write history properly. You seem to prefer claiming 'victory' in an online forum to actually educating yourself. I suppose being easily impressed with oneself has its advantages.
     
  4. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    in other words you cant support your claims so we have yet another pro north post that cannot be supported historically. Showing they believe what they want rather than what history is.
     
  5. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    Just keep cutting & pasting disconnected quotes from some online forum kid. Apparently you think that is 'what history is'. Too funny.
     
  6. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    i am that "kid" but just keep making baseless assumptions about posts and historical documents you refuse to read. I was told one cannot be to careful of what they read if they wish to maintain their beliefs. You have shown this true. As well as the unsupported pro north position.
     
  7. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    What 'historical documents' have you posted? I haven't seen one. I have seen some quotes from people completely without context. I have seen quotes from documents, but not the whole thing. maybe you tucked one away somewhere there, but you have just cut & paste collections of quotes you didn't even find yourself.

    I have studied history up to PhD level and published refereed articles, so I have a extremely good understanding of what a 'historical document' is. I get the impression you don't have a clue. You just think a few quotes on a page is an actual 'historical document'. No one who actually understands what history is would or could think this. Find the original sources in their entirety and then we can talk 'historical documents'.
     
  8. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    Some of what you post, 1stvermont, parrots mainstream, and much twists what actually happened.

    One example. Your last example of the Missouri militia being attacked and made prisoner. That happened because the secessionists were threatening to take Missouri out of the Union.

    Lincoln and the US military put an end to that nonsense.

    So you believe the South had the right to secede. Show us in the Constitution where that is permitted?
     
  9. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    True i quote from them not in their entirely usually, but i than give the reference for that witch I quoted for viewers like you to dig into and critically evaluate. Further if you actually read my posts you would find i put all my material in its historical context.
     
  10. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Missouri declared it neutrality and that was violated by the federal government when they entered the state and captured pro confederates. they than killed civilians. This was the cause of the major change in the state from near universal pro north to divided. Yes Lincoln and the military put an end to the nonsense of the principles of the declaration [a secession document] and the union of the founders. I do not see this as a good thing. See post 48-52.

    The civil war was that the right to govern is paramount over the right to live, that man is made for government, rather than that government is made for man, and that for men to claim the right of self government is to deserve and incure the death penalty”
    -Charles L.C minor The real Lincoln 1928


    "What we call liberty our founders called bondage...we have not freed the slaves we have extended the plantation, know, we are all slaves"
    -Peter Marshall JR The Great War Debate


    The war “Destroyed voluntary union of the founders and made all Americans servants rather than masters of their own government... transformed the American government from a constitutional republic to a consolidated empire”
    -Thomas Dilorenzo author of The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked
     
  11. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Right to seeded Show us in the Constitution where that is permitted?

    The fact that you ask the question and ask where in the Constitution is secession legal, shows not only the winner wrote the history, but the union of the founders was truly destroyed by Lincoln.

    From Confederation to Consolidation the Political Effects of the Civil war
    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...e-political-effects-of-the-civil-war.8093078/





    Secession

    “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right—a right which, we hope and believe, is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement. Such minority was precisely the case of the Tories of our own Revolution. It is a quality of revolutions not to go by old lines, or old laws; but to break up both, and make new ones.” -Abraham Lincoln The War With Mexico: Speech in the United States House of Representatives 1848

    The tree of liberty must refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
    -Thomas Jefferson


    The South maintained with the depth of religious conviction that the Union formed under the Constitution was a Union of consent and not of force; that the original States were not the creatures but the creators of the Union; that these States had gained their independence, their freedom, and their sovereignty from the mother country, and had not surrendered these on entering the Union; that by the express terms of the Constitution all rights and powers not delegated were reserved to the States; and the South challenged the North to find one trace of authority in that Constitution for invading and coercing a sovereign State.-the one for liberty in the union of the States, the other for liberty in the independence of the States.”
    -John B Gordon Confederate General Reminiscences of the Civil War


    The right to self govern is maybe the most fundamental American right there is. It is what led to the revolution. America prior to 1860 maintained a confederation of sovereign states. These states were self governing and independent. The right to succession has been a fundamental right of sovereign states in American history. It has been more common of northern states in America prior to 1860, to discuss or threatened succession. Lincoln turned history on its head and declared the nation created the states and states had no right to leave the union. He also declared the entire people [not the states simple democracy] created the union.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”
    -Declaration of Independence


    The declaration of Independence says “These colonies are, and ought to be free and independent States.” The deceleration is itself a succession document. When the revolution ended the king of England made a peace treaty with each and every state, not with one American nation. Under the articles of confederation article 1 section 2. “Each state retains its sovereignty freedom and Independence.” This is at odds with Lincolns view. Madison said “The truth is, that the great principle of the Constitution proposed by the convention may be considered less as absolutely new, than as the expansion of principles which are found in the articles of Confederation.” but even so, some will say the peoples of the states gave up sovereignty when they ratified the Constitution.

    "The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the states; and these, in uniting together, have not forfeited their nationality, nor have they been reduced to the condition of one and the same people. If one of the states chooses to withdraw from the compact, it would be difficult to disapprove its right of doing so, and
    the Federal Government would have no means of maintaining its claims directly either by force or right.
    -Alexis de Tocqueville Democracy in America


    The first draft of the preamble to the constitution read “we the people of the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode island etc.. when they realized not all states might adopt it, they left out the states to ratify as they chose to. The constitution was than ratified by the states, not the American people. During the Virginia ratification Patrick Henry [anti federalist] warned “we the people” instead of “we the states” would lead to a consolidated national government. Federalist Governor Edmund Randolf [and later federalist Madison and Pendelton] assured him “we the people was to be understood as “we the people of each ratifying state.” and saw his objection as trivial since it would be assumed the people of the states were those referred to.

    It will be a federal and not a national act... the act of the people, as forming so many independent states, not as forming one aggregate nation, is obvious from this single consideration, that it is the result neither from the decision of a majority of the people of the union, nor from the majority of states.”
    -James Madison


    John Randolph of Roanoke said in a speech in congress in 1823 “gentlemen may say what they please of the preamble of the Constitution, but this Constitution is not the work of the amalgamated population of then existing confederacy, but the offspring of the states.” The self governing sovereign people of the individual states appointed representative from each state to ratify the constitution it was not a majority vote nor the Philadelphia convention that ratified the Constitution.

    We the people does not constitute a people separate from the states, for the same reason that the peoples of the representative states do not exist independent of the national community.”
    --Marshall L Derosa the Confederate Constitution of 1861 University of Missouri Press 1991


    The power to coerce a State into obedience to the federal authority, was distinctly proposed in the convention which framed the Constitution of the United States, to be a part of the Constitution, and it was as distincly rejected. Such a power was totally inconsistent with the whole theory of the Constitution, which was — that the Constitution was a compact between the States.”
    -Report on the confederate committee of foreign affairs 1861


    The states existed prior to and created the constitution out of their own free will. In federalist #39 James Madison “The father of the constitution” said the constitution was ratified by the people “Not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent states to which they respectively belong” “states were considered a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only bound by its own voluntary act.” Virginia, New York and Rhode Island reserved the right to succeed from the union before ratifying the constitution.

    The laws of Congress are restricted to a certain sphere, and when they depart from this sphere, they are no longer supreme or binding.”
    -New York’s ratifying convention


    They also declared the right for other states, the others assumed this was the case. In the constitution “united states” is always in plural, not the way we use it today as to refer to one nation. When the constitution was formed, the states had to seceded from the articles of confederation to do so. Federally founded West Point taught the right to secession in its textbook “a view of the constitution of the united states of america by William Rawle.”

    "It depends on the state itself...weather it will continue a member of the union. To deny this right would be inconstant with the principles on witch all our political systems are founded, which is, that the people are in all cases a right to determined how they will be governed...the states then may wholly withdraw from the union."


    The constitution nowhere outlaws secession. The constitution established where the federal government has been delegated authority. The rest is reserved to the states. Secession than is a state issue. Nothing is authorized to the states in the constitution [secession or otherwise] since the purpose of the constitution is federal powers.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”
    -10th amendment U.S Constitution


    Thomas Jefferson

    Resolved, That the several States composing, the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes — delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: that to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral part, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself...each party has equal right to judge for itself” -Kentucky Resolutions of 1798 written by Thomas Jefferson

    Sever ourselves from the union we so much value, rather than give up the rights of self government which we have reserved, and in which alone we see liberty, safety and happiness”
    -Thomas Jefferson to James Madison 1799


    Whether we remain in one confederacy, or form into Atlantic and Mississippi confederacies, I believe not very important to the happiness of either part. Those of the western confederacy will be as much our children & descendants as those of the eastern, and I feel myself as much identified with that country, in future time, as with this; and did I now foresee a separation at some future day, yet I should feel the duty & the desire to promote the western interests as zealously as the eastern, doing all the good for both portions of our future family which should fall within my power.”
    –Letter from President Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Joseph Priestly, Jan. 29, 1804


    Jefferson predicted the western states would form a confederacy in 17 86 after the jay-Gardoquit treaty. He said “the moment they resolve to do this the point is settled” “Forced connection is neither our interest nor within our power.” Jefferson wished to “confederate with those alone witch are for peace and agriculture opposed to unlimited commerce and war [federalists]
     
  12. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Hartford convention

    At the convention the New England states debated whether they should leave the union. No one questioned the legality, simply if it should be done. In 1801 Thomas Jefferson as president said “If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed.” Jefferson said alittel rebellion is “a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” When as president the New England federalist were considering succession Jefferson said “If any state in the union will declare that it prefers separation...let us separate”

    Other Founders

    “But the indissoluble link of union between the people of the several states of this confederated nation, is after all, not in the right, but in the heart. If the day should ever come, (may Heaven avert it,) when the affections of the people of these states shall be alienated from each other; when the fraternal spirit shall give away to cold indifference, or collisions of interest shall fester into hatred, the bands of political association will not long hold together parties no longer attracted by the magnetism of conciliated interests and kindly sympathies; and far better will it be for the people of the disunited states, to part in friendship from each other, than to be held together by constraint. Then will be the time for reverting to the precedents which occurred at the formation and adoption of the Constitution, to form again a more perfect union, by dissolving that which could no longer bind, and to leave the separated parts to be reunited by the law of political gravitation to the centre”
    -John Quincy Adams Northern federalist 1839


    Northern federalist Daniel Webster said in 1851 that if the north would not comply with the fugitive slave law, “The south would no longer be bound to observe the compact. A bargain can not be broken on one side, and still bind the other side” There was talk of civil war in 1800 but Jefferson won election, had he not, we might have split long before.

    The thirteen states are thirteen sovereign bodies”
    -Oliver Ellsworth


    The states are nations”
    -Daniel Webster Commentaries on the Constitution


    If the union was formed by the accession of states then the union may be dissolved by the secession of states”
    -Daniel Webster U.S senate Feb 15 1833


    The attributes of sovereignty are now enjoyed by every state in the union”
    -Alexander Hamilton


    The first thing I have at heart is American liberty, the second thing is American union
    -Patrick Henry


    The Union, next to our liberties most dear.”
    -John C. Calhoun


    Had Buchanan in 1860 sent armed forces to prevent the nullification of the fugitive slave law, as Andrew Jackson thretned to do so in 1833, there would have been a secession of fifteen northern states instead of thirteen southern states. Had the democrats won in 1860 the northern states would have been the seceding states not the southern.”
    -George Lunt of Massachusetts Origin of the Late war

    It is in the power of the states to extinguish this government at a blow”
    -John Randolph of Roanoke 1823



    By 1860 clearly the southern states saw secession as legal but so did most in the north and many leading newspapers. West Virginia during the civil war seceded from the confederacy and the state of Virginia. f

    the leading and most influncial papers of the union believe that any state of the union has a right to secede”
    -Davenport Iowa Democrat and news 11/17/60


    opposing secession changes the nature of government “from a voluntary one, in which the people are sovereigns, to a despotism were one part of the people are slaves”
    - New York Journal of commerce 1/12/61


    The great principles embodied by Jefferson in the declaration is... that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed” Therefore if the southern states wish to secede, “they have a clear right to do so”
    -New York tribune 2/5/61


    Secession is “the very germ of liberty...the right of secession inheres to the people of every sovereign state”
    -Kenosha Wisconsin Democrat 1/11/61


    If for any cause the Government...should become inimical to the rights and interests of the people, instead of affording protection to their persons and property, and securing the happiness and prosperity, to attain which it was established, it is the natural right of the people to change the Government regardless of Constitutions.
    What then is the South to do? Suffer the compact which brought them into the Union to be violated with impunity, and without means of redress; submit to incursions into their territory and trespass upon their property by northern abolitionists?...Who expects, who desires the South to submit to all this?
    -Dubuque Iowa Herald 1860


    Treason

    Article 3 section 3 of the constitution says

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

    This is what Abraham Lincoln did in the American civil war, he waged war against the southern states.

    “To coerce the states is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised... a complying state at war with a non complying state. Congress marching the troops of one state into the bosom of another? Here is a nation at war with itself. Can any reasonable man be well disposed toward a government which makes war and carnage the only means of supporting itself- a government that can exists only by the sword”.
    -Alexander Hamilton Northern federalist


    Before the war a union a collection of states... after the war we began to speak of a nation”
    -Ken Burns


    But southerns would also say the south was not leaving the original American republic, but establishing it. That is why before the war the south often thought the north should succeed.

    "All that the South has ever desired was the Union as established by our forefathers should be preserved and that the government as originally organized should be administered in purity and truth."
    Gen. Robert E. Lee Quoted in The enduring Relevance of Robert E Lee

    Also being called a traitor is not automatically a bad thing, our nations greatest heroes IMO were traitors. The declaration of Independence was a secession document of sovereign states choosing separation from England's tyrannical government. From Great Britans point of view, they were the loyalist and Americans the traitors. The difference is the north won the war. Had America lost its war for independence, they would have taught the founders as traitors and rebels in textbooks in America. During the revolution “loyalist” like Benedict Arnold were the traitors. John Brown is celebrated in the north yet he formed his own constitution, left the union and created a nation “the republic of liberated slaves”

    If the declaration justified the secession of 3 million colonists in 1776 then why did it not justify the secession of 5 million southerns from the union in 1861”
    -Horce Greeley


    Rebellion if successful, is sacred, if not, is treason”
    -Proverb
     
  13. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    What references would those be? Referencing involves author, pages, dates and publication details. On the internet it should also involve links where they are available. This is something even high school students understand. Apparently you were away that day.

    The context of a quote is all the other material around the original quote, not a vague bit of historical background. Who said it, when, where, what was their background, what other things did they say etc. etc.

    Cutting & pasting a bunch of quotes from some website isn't history, it is a list. You don't understand what an historical document is or what a reference is. You don't understand historical context. You just don't understand history. You want a story that buttresses your prejudices - propaganda in nice clothes.
     
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  14. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    Missouri and Kentucky had no legal right to declare "neutrality", and when Missouri did, President Lincoln did the right thing and put down rebellion.

    Hint: in war, people military and citizen get killed.
     
  15. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    1st vermont likes lists.

    The fact that he cannot answer the question where in the Constitution is secession legal demonstrates that he knows the secession was illegal, unconstitutional, and morally wrong by American standards.

    Thank heavens the President had the gumption to step on such pipsqueak beliefs.
     
  16. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    pathetic and laughable
     
  17. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    "happy to be bought"? Oh, my.
     
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  18. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, some Southerners and Northerners did buy slaves out of pity for the slaves condition. It was much easier and safer for all to buy a slave and transport him/her out of the South and free him, then it was to smuggle out runaway slaves.

    Often, a freed slave would work through that process to buy the freedom of his/her family members.

    Even after having been granted freedom legally according to the laws of the time, a black person still had to be careful even in the North. Slavery was legal and practiced in the North (not until after the Civil War was slavery in the North abolished) and it was not unheard of for a free black person to be rounded up and sent into slavery.

    You really should learn some history before posting.
     
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  19. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    Mr. Truth was pointing out just how rare such acts were, so that in fact it was pathetic and laughable as a defense.
     
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  20. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    and yet historical, written from observers not given a false pc history. I think you have missed the context. These slaves were slaves in africa [worse than slavery in america] and were than part of the international slave trade [at least as bad as slavery in Africa] and were know out of it and were happy as their treatment was greatly improved. If you disagree with any of the above by all means lets discus it.


    But it gets worse, I argued many were more happy to stay in slavery than be free.




    After the Slaves Were Released, Many Slaves Preferred Slavery / Race Relations Worsen After Slaves Were Freed

    Before two years had passed after the surrender, there was two out of every three slaves who wished they was back with their marsters. The marsters’ kindness to the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] after the war is the cause of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] having things today. There was a lot of love between marster and slave, and there is few of us that don’t love the white folks today.”
    -Slave Patsy Mitchner Slave Narratives


    Things sure better long time ago then they be now. I know it. Colored people never had no debt to pay in slavery time. Never hear tell about no colored people been put in jail before freedom. Had more to eat and more to wear then, and had good clothes all the time ’cause white folks furnish everything, everything. Had plenty peas, rice, hog meat, rabbit, fish, and such as that.”
    -Sylvia Cannon, South Carolina Slave Narratives


    The institution of slavery is a stain on this nation’s soul that will never be cleansed. It is just as wrong as wrong can be, a huge sin, and it is on our soul. There’s a second sin that’s almost as great and that’s emancipation.”
    -Shelby Foote

    The failure of medical care was in essence the story with the rest of life for the freedmen: no one had planned for their future after emancipation and no one in charge much cared about it, and as soon as their problems became intractable the North washed its hands of the whole morass. It is instructive here to remember what Lincoln himself said of the freedmen’s future, in a conversation with Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens in February 1865... “Root, hog, or die.”
    -Kirkpatrick Sale Emancipation Hell The Tragedy Wrought by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation 2015


    The condition of the slave materially declined after the civil war. Now instead of being cared for by a master with basic needs met, they had to provide for themselves with no money/land of their own. Unlike free blacks, slaves had never been without a place to live, and free medical care. They had never starved, been without work, and had always been taken care of when they were sick or old. Speaking of money Anne Bell of south Carolina said “What I want wid it anyhow”, slaves were taken care of. As slave Smith Stevens said, often they simply went to go “work” for their former masters, now being paid, yet now having to cover basic medical care, food, clothing, and ended up in same situation or often worse. A former South Carolina slave said, “If we had not been set free in 1865 you would have discovered many wealthy black slaves laden with money we had made from our extra crop production.” Sickness rose, life expectancy dropped, blacks skilled in labor deteriorated, and the African American diet deteriorated.

    Didn't have so much sickness in them days, and naturally they diden't die so fast. Folks lived a long time than”
    -Aunt Sally Georgia slave narratives


    The gap in earnings between whites and blacks rose from the time after the after Civil War until WW2. Many slaves simply refused their freedom. Sometimes when slaves heard that the war was over, they would start working extra hard and be on their best behavior to better their chances of remaining on the plantation.

    Often I heard them declare that they would rather go back to slavery in the south, and be with their old masters, than to enjoy the freedom in the north”
    -Former slave Elizabeth Keckley


    After freedom, Negro crime skyrocketed. There were now numerous blacks without care, without their needs met (masters gone), with little to no money or land, and no way to provide for themselves. This led to the high crime rate and want of segregation on both sides. The high crime because of the freed negroes also led to increase racism. Charles Lyell noted how Negro crime in the 1830's was almost nonexistent; he said the Irish in a few years had done far worse than Negroes had through a hundred years. White crime versus blacks also rose due to the bitter defeats in war and politics they suffered. This led to many “Horrors” of former good willed masters against former slaves. Overall, race relations grew far worse in the decades after the civil war.

    My mother was always right in the house with the white people and I was fed just like I was one of their children. They even done put me to bed with them. You see, this discrimination on color wasn’t as bad then as it is now. They handled you as a slave but they didn’t discriminate against you on account of color like they do now.”
    -Elija Henery Hopkins, Arkansas Slave Narratives


    We had better then than now cause white men lynch an burn now and do other things they couldent do then”
    -Henry brown South Carolina Slave narratives


    Race relations deteriorated at the end of the nineteenth century”
    -Douglas W. Bristol Knights of the Razor: Black Barbers in Slavery and Freedom


    The slave narratives tell of how bad things had gotten with the following generations of blacks and whites. Former slaves describe the newer generation of blacks as wild, disrespectful, lazy, lying, stealing, criminals, that have no respect and are not being raised right (they almost all say because they were not whipped, for which many slaves said they were thankful for). This caused race relations, they say, to worsen, along with the KKK, which started as a political weapon used against blacks to vote by disgruntled white southerners after losing political power in the war.

    “I admit that the Negro…has made little progress from barbarism to civilization, and that he is in deplorable condition since his emancipation. That he is worse off, in many respects, than when he was a slave, I am compelled to admit it…Though he is nominally free he is actually a slave ….“I here and now denounce his so-called emancipation as a stupendous fraud—a fraud upon him, a fraud upon the world.....in law free, in fact a slave.”
    -Frederick Douglass April 16,1888, black leader Frederick Douglass speech in Washington, D.C on the twenty-sixth anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation.


    It has suddenly and greatly diminished there share of the material goods [slaves after war] they before enjoyed the supplies of clothing and shoes now acquired by them do not reach a third of what they revived before the war”
    -R.L Dabney, 1867


    Connecticut College professor James Downs. He shows that set adrift by emancipation, with few means of surviving the collapsed plantation economy, the freedmen were victims of an “explosive epidemic outbreaks” of a whole range of diseases from yellow fever and smallpox to cholera and dysentery and died by the “tens of thousands”.
    --Kirkpatrick Sale Emancipation Hell The Tragedy Wrought by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation 2015


    De missus...rock me ter sleep an put me ter bed in her own bed. I wuz happy den...untill dem yankees come we wuznt happy at de surrender an we cussed old Abraham Lincoln all ober de place”
    -John Beckwith North Carolina Slave Narratives


    I' seems to think us have more freedom when us slaves”
    -Abmstead Barrett Texas Slave narratives


    I was happy all de time in slavery days, but dere ain’t much to git happy over now…”
    -Mary Rice, Alabama Slave Narratives


    "I wish times were like they use to be when we belonged to the white folks; we had better times then."
    -Ben Wall, Mississippi Slave Narratives


    Master called all the slaves up and said 'you is just as free as I am. You can stay or go as you please'. We all stayed.In slavery times the old folks was cared for and now there ain't no one to see to them."
    -Smith Simmons, Alabama Slave Narratives


    "Our food them was a-way better that the stuff we gets today." [post slavery]
    -Emma Jones, Georgia Slave Narratives


    Freedom is all right, but de [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s was better off befo' surrender”
    -
    Tempe Herndon Durham, North Carolina Slave Narratives

    I 'druther be alivin' back dere dan today 'caze us at least had plenty somp'n t'eat an' nothin' to worry about”
    -Henry Cheatam, Alabama Slave Narratives


    All de slaves cried when de Yankees come, an dat most uv 'em stayed on a long time atter de war. My manmy plowed an done such work all de time uv slavery out she done it case she wanted to do it an not 'cause dey make her...All de slaves hate de Yankees an when de southern soldiers came late in de night all de [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s got out of de bed an holdin torches high dey march behin de soldiers, all of dem singing We'll hang Abe Lincoln on de Sour Apple Tree. yes mam, dey wuz sorry dat dey wuz freeman' dey ain't got no reason tu be glad, case dey wuz happier den dan now”
    -Alice Baugh North Carolina


    More humble , affectionate, anxious to be allowed to remain as they are than the outside world, the readers of mrs Stowe would ever conceive. Not one expressed the slightest pleasure at the sudden freedom.”
    -Mary Chestnut, speaking of her slaves after the war



    I believe our slaves are the happiest three millions of human beings on whom the sun shines, into their Eden is coming Satan in the guise of an abolitionist”
    -James Hammond, plantation owner before the war


    Old master dead an'gone and old mistis too, but I member'em jus'lak dey was,when dey looked after us whenst we belonged to em or dey belonged to us I dunno which it was....de times was better fo'de war...i goes to church and sings an' prays, an' when de good lord teks me, i'se ready to go, en I specs to see jesus an' old mistis an' old master when I gets to de he'benly mand”
    -Jane, Alabama Slave Narratives


    Dixie Land



    The song Dixie Land was written about a runaway former slave who is longing for the plantation of his birth.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2018
  21. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    a
    And yet historical, written from observers not given a false pc history. I think you have missed the context. These slaves were slaves in africa [worse than slavery in america] and were than part of the international slave trade [at least as bad as slavery in Africa] and were know out of it and were happy as their treatment was greatly improved. If you disagree with any of the above by all means lets discus it.


    But it gets worse, I argued many were more happy to stay in slavery than be free.




    After the Slaves Were Released, Many Slaves Preferred Slavery / Race Relations Worsen After Slaves Were Freed

    Before two years had passed after the surrender, there was two out of every three slaves who wished they was back with their marsters. The marsters’ kindness to the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] after the war is the cause of the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] having things today. There was a lot of love between marster and slave, and there is few of us that don’t love the white folks today.”
    -Slave Patsy Mitchner Slave Narratives


    Things sure better long time ago then they be now. I know it. Colored people never had no debt to pay in slavery time. Never hear tell about no colored people been put in jail before freedom. Had more to eat and more to wear then, and had good clothes all the time ’cause white folks furnish everything, everything. Had plenty peas, rice, hog meat, rabbit, fish, and such as that.”
    -Sylvia Cannon, South Carolina Slave Narratives


    The institution of slavery is a stain on this nation’s soul that will never be cleansed. It is just as wrong as wrong can be, a huge sin, and it is on our soul. There’s a second sin that’s almost as great and that’s emancipation.”
    -Shelby Foote

    The failure of medical care was in essence the story with the rest of life for the freedmen: no one had planned for their future after emancipation and no one in charge much cared about it, and as soon as their problems became intractable the North washed its hands of the whole morass. It is instructive here to remember what Lincoln himself said of the freedmen’s future, in a conversation with Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens in February 1865... “Root, hog, or die.”
    -Kirkpatrick Sale Emancipation Hell The Tragedy Wrought by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation 2015


    The condition of the slave materially declined after the civil war. Now instead of being cared for by a master with basic needs met, they had to provide for themselves with no money/land of their own. Unlike free blacks, slaves had never been without a place to live, and free medical care. They had never starved, been without work, and had always been taken care of when they were sick or old. Speaking of money Anne Bell of south Carolina said “What I want wid it anyhow”, slaves were taken care of. As slave Smith Stevens said, often they simply went to go “work” for their former masters, now being paid, yet now having to cover basic medical care, food, clothing, and ended up in same situation or often worse. A former South Carolina slave said, “If we had not been set free in 1865 you would have discovered many wealthy black slaves laden with money we had made from our extra crop production.” Sickness rose, life expectancy dropped, blacks skilled in labor deteriorated, and the African American diet deteriorated.

    Didn't have so much sickness in them days, and naturally they diden't die so fast. Folks lived a long time than”
    -Aunt Sally Georgia slave narratives


    The gap in earnings between whites and blacks rose from the time after the after Civil War until WW2. Many slaves simply refused their freedom. Sometimes when slaves heard that the war was over, they would start working extra hard and be on their best behavior to better their chances of remaining on the plantation.

    Often I heard them declare that they would rather go back to slavery in the south, and be with their old masters, than to enjoy the freedom in the north”
    -Former slave Elizabeth Keckley


    After freedom, Negro crime skyrocketed. There were now numerous blacks without care, without their needs met (masters gone), with little to no money or land, and no way to provide for themselves. This led to the high crime rate and want of segregation on both sides. The high crime because of the freed negroes also led to increase racism. Charles Lyell noted how Negro crime in the 1830's was almost nonexistent; he said the Irish in a few years had done far worse than Negroes had through a hundred years. White crime versus blacks also rose due to the bitter defeats in war and politics they suffered. This led to many “Horrors” of former good willed masters against former slaves. Overall, race relations grew far worse in the decades after the civil war.

    My mother was always right in the house with the white people and I was fed just like I was one of their children. They even done put me to bed with them. You see, this discrimination on color wasn’t as bad then as it is now. They handled you as a slave but they didn’t discriminate against you on account of color like they do now.”
    -Elija Henery Hopkins, Arkansas Slave Narratives


    We had better then than now cause white men lynch an burn now and do other things they couldent do then”
    -Henry brown South Carolina Slave narratives


    Race relations deteriorated at the end of the nineteenth century”
    -Douglas W. Bristol Knights of the Razor: Black Barbers in Slavery and Freedom


    The slave narratives tell of how bad things had gotten with the following generations of blacks and whites. Former slaves describe the newer generation of blacks as wild, disrespectful, lazy, lying, stealing, criminals, that have no respect and are not being raised right (they almost all say because they were not whipped, for which many slaves said they were thankful for). This caused race relations, they say, to worsen, along with the KKK, which started as a political weapon used against blacks to vote by disgruntled white southerners after losing political power in the war.

    “I admit that the Negro…has made little progress from barbarism to civilization, and that he is in deplorable condition since his emancipation. That he is worse off, in many respects, than when he was a slave, I am compelled to admit it…Though he is nominally free he is actually a slave ….“I here and now denounce his so-called emancipation as a stupendous fraud—a fraud upon him, a fraud upon the world.....in law free, in fact a slave.”
    -Frederick Douglass April 16,1888, black leader Frederick Douglass speech in Washington, D.C on the twenty-sixth anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation.


    It has suddenly and greatly diminished there share of the material goods [slaves after war] they before enjoyed the supplies of clothing and shoes now acquired by them do not reach a third of what they revived before the war”
    -R.L Dabney, 1867


    Connecticut College professor James Downs. He shows that set adrift by emancipation, with few means of surviving the collapsed plantation economy, the freedmen were victims of an “explosive epidemic outbreaks” of a whole range of diseases from yellow fever and smallpox to cholera and dysentery and died by the “tens of thousands”.
    --Kirkpatrick Sale Emancipation Hell The Tragedy Wrought by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation 2015


    De missus...rock me ter sleep an put me ter bed in her own bed. I wuz happy den...untill dem yankees come we wuznt happy at de surrender an we cussed old Abraham Lincoln all ober de place”
    -John Beckwith North Carolina Slave Narratives


    I' seems to think us have more freedom when us slaves”
    -Abmstead Barrett Texas Slave narratives


    I was happy all de time in slavery days, but dere ain’t much to git happy over now…”
    -Mary Rice, Alabama Slave Narratives


    "I wish times were like they use to be when we belonged to the white folks; we had better times then."
    -Ben Wall, Mississippi Slave Narratives


    Master called all the slaves up and said 'you is just as free as I am. You can stay or go as you please'. We all stayed.In slavery times the old folks was cared for and now there ain't no one to see to them."
    -Smith Simmons, Alabama Slave Narratives


    "Our food them was a-way better that the stuff we gets today." [post slavery]
    -Emma Jones, Georgia Slave Narratives


    Freedom is all right, but de [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s was better off befo' surrender”
    -
    Tempe Herndon Durham, North Carolina Slave Narratives

    I 'druther be alivin' back dere dan today 'caze us at least had plenty somp'n t'eat an' nothin' to worry about”
    -Henry Cheatam, Alabama Slave Narratives


    All de slaves cried when de Yankees come, an dat most uv 'em stayed on a long time atter de war. My manmy plowed an done such work all de time uv slavery out she done it case she wanted to do it an not 'cause dey make her...All de slaves hate de Yankees an when de southern soldiers came late in de night all de [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]s got out of de bed an holdin torches high dey march behin de soldiers, all of dem singing We'll hang Abe Lincoln on de Sour Apple Tree. yes mam, dey wuz sorry dat dey wuz freeman' dey ain't got no reason tu be glad, case dey wuz happier den dan now”
    -Alice Baugh North Carolina


    More humble , affectionate, anxious to be allowed to remain as they are than the outside world, the readers of mrs Stowe would ever conceive. Not one expressed the slightest pleasure at the sudden freedom.”
    -Mary Chestnut, speaking of her slaves after the war



    I believe our slaves are the happiest three millions of human beings on whom the sun shines, into their Eden is coming Satan in the guise of an abolitionist”
    -James Hammond, plantation owner before the war


    Old master dead an'gone and old mistis too, but I member'em jus'lak dey was,when dey looked after us whenst we belonged to em or dey belonged to us I dunno which it was....de times was better fo'de war...i goes to church and sings an' prays, an' when de good lord teks me, i'se ready to go, en I specs to see jesus an' old mistis an' old master when I gets to de he'benly mand”
    -Jane, Alabama Slave Narratives


    Dixie Land



    The song Dixie Land was written about a runaway former slave who is longing for the plantation of his birth.
     
  22. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Just wanted to mention slavery was not abolished during the civil war. It was done legally by the states through an amendment that came after the war voted by south and north. And yes slaves were happy to be bought and out of the evils of the slave trade [done almost universally by northern]
     
  23. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    1stvermont is posting alt facts and fake material. What cites he has posted are posting christian dominion works.

    Now he is simply spamming.
     
  24. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Yup. He fails to understand that he is regurgitating pro slavery propaganda that has been discredited thousands of times.

    If slavery was as good as he and his heroes believed, why did so many slaves flee to the North? Why fight for the Yanks? Why not join the KKK like the fake blacks did in "Birth of a Nation" or terrorize political copperheads? Why continue to immigrate North after the war?

    All of his propaganda is laughable. Just imagine someone here posting garbage which said what the Nazis did to Jews was a good thing. The thread would be closed immediately and for good reason, too.
     
    Mushroom likes this.
  25. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Banned

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    The pro-slavery wing are, many of them Christian dominionists, who want to return the South to a White Man's paradise.
     

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