Civil war Books From the Southern Perspective

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by 1stvermont, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Almost nobody believes the southern 'lost cause' nonsense.

    There is real history and southern lost cause history: no other kind.
     
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  2. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    because most people are like you indoctrinated to believe a version and unwilling to challenge what they believe.


    In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."

    He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.”
    - Albert Einstein


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
    ― Mark Twain

    powerful human erge to belong inside the group to think like the majority...and to win the groups approval by trashing dissenters conformity and group think are attitudes of particular danger in science. Because progression depends on overturning established wisdom”
    new york times 23 july 2009


    The truth, indeed, is something that mankind, for some mysterious reason, instinctively dislikes. Every man who tries to tell it is unpopular, and even when, by the sheer strength of his case, he prevails, he is put down as a scoundrel.
    H. L. Menck


    "if freedom of speech is taken away than dumb and silent may be led, like sheep to the slaughter"
    -George Washington


    Heresyphobia- Fear of deviation from traditional doctrine
    Gnosiophobia- Fear of knowledge
    Phronemophobia- Fear of thinking



    "The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory. Destroy its books, its history. Then have somebody write new books, manufacture a new culture, invent a new history"
    -Milan Hubl, Czek communist


    If you can cut the people off from their history, then they can be easily persuaded.”
    -Karl Marx


    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
    -George Orwell, 1984.


    It means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the War, will be impressed by all influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, our maimed veterans as fit objects for their derision.”
    -Major General Patrick Cleburne, C.S.A. Jan. 2, 1864


    Any society which suppresses the heritage of its conquered minorities, prevents their history or denies them their symbols, has sown the seeds of their own destruction.”
    -Sir William Wallace, 1281

     
  3. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Some indoctrinated the Southern lost cause gang, and this thread is an example of an inability to use, create, and cite solid history on the subject.

    I find that those who write on Biblical creationism vs. evolutionary science suffer the same problems.
     
  4. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    he who controls the keyboard, controls what they see & believe...
     
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  5. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Some indoctrinated pro north gang, and this thread is an example of an inability to use, create, and cite solid history on the subject.

    I find that those who write on evolution vs. biblical creation suffer the same problems.
     
  6. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for proving my point, 1stvermont. You are now reverting to behavior that did not work on other boards, yes?
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  7. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    I get choked up at Confederate graves and US graves in Natchez; that will not change. I get choked up at the Forks of the Road in Natchez. That will not change. I hold nothing against either side, and believe that history proceeded as it should have through the duration of the Civil War. It was ugly but all human history is ugly.

    "Long before Memorial Day became a national holiday in 1971, and almost two years before its first official observance in 1868, local springtime tributes to the Civil War dead had been held in various municipalities. One of the first occurred in Columbus, Mississippi, on April 25, 1866 (not quite a year after the end of the Civil War), when a group of women visiting a cemetery to decorate the graves of Confederate soldiers placed flowers upon the bare graves of Union soldiers, as well, in the spirit of national unity."

    https://www.rd.com/culture/memorial-day-facts/

    It's been 153 years. I'm not going to fight the Civil War over again. It is over. The South is not going to rise again. I stand to my feet for the National Anthem, I stand to my feet for Dixie, although it is seldom heard now.

    Preserve all the history, never destroy any of it. Time by itself along with inanimate entropy erases too much history before it is thought about again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  8. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    I like your stance but i personally shall never give up on the ideas and principles that the csa fought and died for.
     
  9. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Who care anymore?
     
  10. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clearly the poster since he has argued his points across multiple forums over many years using the same quotes. Because I am a Brit who does not know that much about the Civil War I spent a while investigating his claims. They are roundly debunked year after year I discovered!
     
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  11. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    I challenge you to provide one example of your claim.
     
  12. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    "The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable...”

    ― H.L. Mencken, Prejudices: Third Series


    You dont care because your side won. I would much rather be under the original american republics form of government and society. Once you taste liberty [not freedom can only be found pre antebellum in america] and are able to see what our government has done to the founders union and its citizens, you would agree with the above quote. We started with the same education [public/goverment pc] but I have since changed. While you are still the product of that governments desired way of thinking.

    “Have been taught to celebrate this betrayal of the founding fathers..The vast bulk of Americans proceed through twelve years of government funded education [by an interesting coincidence] teaches them all about the wonders of federal government, how lost they'd be without it, and how foolish it would be to worry that the constitution might not authorize most of what it does. Portrayed as a benevolent force innocently pursuing the common good....cost less benefits granted by selfless crusaders for justice”
    -Tomas Woods Nullification How to Resist federal tyranny in the 21st Century

    “The American public was also relentlessly propagandized by the government and its private sector accomplices, such as Jay Cooke, into believing that it could now look to the federal government for solutions to its problems. This made it easier for future generations of politicians to convince the American public to acquiesce in further expansions of government and further restrictions on personal liberty that would have caused the founding fathers to reach for their swords”
    -Thomas Dilorenzo The Real Lincoln


    “Overthrow the present form of Federal-republican government, and to establish a strong centralized government in its stead...national banks, bankrupt laws, a vast and permanent public debt, high tariffs, heavy direct taxation, enormous expenditure, gigantic and stupendous peculation . . . No more state lines, no more state governments, but a consolidated monarchy or vast centralized military despotism.” “instead of crushing out the rebellion,” the “effort has been to crush out the spirit of liberty” in the Northern states.
    - Clement L. Vallandigham D-Ohio spoke of the reason for Lincolns war 1863






    When all government domestic and forighn in little as in great things shall be drawn to Washington as the source of all power. It will render powerless the checks provided of one government [states] on another, and will become as vegal and oppressive as the government which we have separated”
    -Thomas Jefferson

    What we call liberty our founders called bondage...we have not freed the slaves we have extended the plantation, know, we are all slaves"
    -Peter Marshall JR The Great War Debate

    The war “Destroyed voluntary union of the founders and made all Americans servants rather than masters of their own government... transformed the American government from a constitutional republic to a consolidated empire”
    -Thomas Dilorenzo author of The Real Lincoln and Lincoln Unmasked


    The US government has grown into a monstrous tyrannical body that would not even by reorganized by its founders”
    -Lochlainn Seabrook The Constitution Of The Confederate States Of America Explained


    The civil war was that the right to govern is paramount over the right to live, that man is made for government, rather than that government is made for man, and that for men to claim the right of self government is to deserve and incure the death penalty”
    -Charles L.C minor The real Lincoln 1928



    By contrast, now all “the land of the free and the home of the brave” bends the knee to Washington D.C no matter how outrageous or oppressive its orders.”
    -James Rutledge Roesch From Founding Fathers to Fire Eaters The Constitutional Doctrine of States Rights in the old South Shotwell publishing








    Today's federal government is considerably at odds with that envisioned by the framers of the constitution”
    -John Olin George Mason University


    Many think our present federal government is the same one our founders fathers established. Nothing could be further from the truth....after the [civil war].... government power over the people underwent a radical change in the limits of government authority”
    -James and Walter Kennedy The South Was Right


    Lincoln...undermined the constitutional safeguards of freedom as he opened the way to centralized government with all its political evils”
    -Edmund Wilson


    If we had been able to maintain the real union of sovereign states founded by our fathers, than there would not be, could not be, the imperial central state that we suffer under today”
    -Clyde Wilson From Union to Empire
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  13. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    So many of that persuasion share aspects of a concrete personality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    The right to own people in perpetuity?
     
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  15. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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  16. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Whites are not superior to blacks.

    People who love American civil liberties and values never would permit a Christian Dominion government at the state or national level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  17. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    I agree. Because the bible i know all are created equal we are not randomly evolved groups differing in our stage of evolution.

    "At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state as we may hope, than the Caucasian and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”
    Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man



    But I must ask you, what base do you say mankind has/deserves liberty? where do these ideas come from? who is to say those in power cant force the lesser to do as they wish? you like those civil liberties without knowing from whence they came, the bible. what in your worldview would justify saying this is wrong

    if it all happens naturalistic whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
    Jefery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within

    I know it’s uncivilised but I know it’s incredibly instinctual and human. Past generations of life, killing is a route of survival.“It’s kill or be killed. I did not have a choice. It was kill her or suicide.“
    Rayner, G., Boy, 16, winked at fellow student before stabbing teacher Ann Maguire to death as she tried to flee, telegraph.co.uk, 3 November 2014.






    I do agree with you on no demonstration, why is that? because that is what the bible teaches, freedom of religion. rather than the european state forced denominations.

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-united-states-a-biblical-government.8091610/
    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/americas-christian-heritage-sources.8092782/


    Thread coming on these subjects in future.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  18. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The Bible teaches the exact opposite of religious liberty.
     
  19. 1stvermont

    1stvermont Active Member

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    Perhaps this would be better for another topic. Given your unsupported assumptions and false beliefs of the topic of this thread, I am in noway surprised you carry the same for the bible. Topic coming to this thread on those subjects in the future. Hope to see you on them.
     
  20. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Given 1stvermon'ts faulty assumption and errors in logic, I am not surprised in his wrongful understanding of the Bible.

    He is believes in a sick form of Christian Dominion that would suppress the rights of women and minorities.
     
  21. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    If they were around today, our Founding Fathers would be the first ones to condemn the military industrial complex and our involvement in foreign wars.

    Too bad conservatives can't see this truth.
     
  22. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Slavery isn't the same as genocide. Slavery was a culture practices throughout history, and to condemn only one region for their use of it is pretty hypocritical when even the north had their own slaves and worse conditions for their irish immigrants.
     
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  23. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    "worse conditions for their irish immigrants" is a statement that cannot be supported with comparison-contrast data.
     
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  24. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The South had legal resort to secede; change the Constitution. They knew that would not happen, so they chose an illegal path. When laws and covenants are broken, there are consequences. The consequence this time was that the U.S. maintained its integrity.
     
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  25. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Then I guess its the same the other way as well. If, and this is a big IF, you look at both Irish "slaves/indentured servants" and African slaves in the sense of what they were back in those days as "property" with a value to it, would you treat your beat up civic better or worse than you treat your fresh BMW? Irish were way cheaper than Africans, and you had to pay the Irish severance if they survived to the end of their "contract". You also had many Irish women raped by the African men on the behest of the master so they could enlarge their African slave population because it was cheaper than buying more African slaves. Did both groups get treated inhumanely? Sure. But the masters knew the worth of the two groups and they wouldn't want to ruin their more expensive property with tasks that where risky when they had a cheaper and more disposable group of property.
     

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