Climate Change 2022: Mitigation of Climate Change

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bowerbird, Apr 6, 2022.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, it absolutely was NOT.

    The concerns of climate change are ones that continue over many years time.

    What happens in any single year is immaterial, especially when it is caused by the volatility of economic disasters such as COVID.


    And, I suspect you knew that and had to struggle just to come up with your nonsense accusation.
     
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I hear you. I'm waiting patiently for global warming to come here so I can plant some palm trees in the back yard.
     
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  3. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The exchange was about GDP growth, not climate. If you can't remember the subject perhaps you should drop the aggressive language.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2022
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You didn't read my posts.

    GDP growth is a serious issue that pertains to energy requirement.
     
  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry, but you can't escape that way, because I do read your posts. Your claim was a stand-alone assertion of economic performance, and inaccurate.
     
  6. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    About 2/3 of oil is used for transportation.

    Think what we could accomplish for America by cutting that 2/3 in half with solutions other than really expensive gasoline!
     
  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Really expensive gasoline" is largely the result of stupid government policies.
     
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  9. Bullseye

    Bullseye Well-Known Member

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    Such as . . .?
     
  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    This should be interesting.
    German Conservationists Score Win In Battle To Protect 1000-Year Old “Grimm’s Fairytale Forest” From Green Insanity
    By P Gosselin on 18. May 2022

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    The German state of Hesse has one of Europe’s largest largest contiguous and undisturbed forest areas: the Reinhardswald, also known as the “treasure house of European forests” or “Grimm’s fairytale forest”.

    The legal fight to rescue the treasured forest from windpark industrialization has begun. . . .
     
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  11. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Almost every post here seems to originate from bias. Most posters seem to have some sort of ax to grind. So here's a short report on facts. There is nothing here that projects anything at all. This post is about my personal experience. I am a homeowner.. a single family home in a temperate part of America. I am not out to save the world. My goal is to keep my family safe and prosperous. I'll consider myself successful if I do just that, without any soap box rants about the world in general. As an aside, you should probably know I hold an Engineering Degree from West Point and an MBA from Missouri. (Just in case comments lack facts and focus on insults.)

    SOLAR POWER
    : We recently installed 61 solar panels on our roof and two batteries for power at night. Its not cheap. There are a few minor charges to stay attached to the grid so we can sell power back to the grid. In general, we generate more power than we use. Month to month we have about the same number of dollars in our pocket as before solar was installed. The difference is that our loan payment for the solar is building equity while paying a utility bill did not. In addition, we will be unaffected by any long or short term disruption of electric service. We actually bought a GENERAC years ago, but that keeps us reliant on natural gas sources, which might be disrupted too. Now we are totally "energy independent" (love that term!) in our home. So, bottom line, solar is a good deal.

    CLIMATE CHANGE: In 1970, we were told by "scientists" that Miami would be under water in ten years. In 1980, we were told by "scientists" that Miami would be under water in ten years. In 1990, we were told by "scientists" that Miami would be under water in ten years. In 2000, we were told by "scientists" that Miami would be under water in ten years. In 2010, we were told by "scientists" that Miami would be under water in ten years. In 2020, we were told by "scientists" that Miami would be under water in ten years. Now AOC tells us its more than Miami as others jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon. Bottom Line? CLIMATE CHANGE is a political talking point issue ... nothing more. (Can you spell "HOOEY"?)

    ELECTRIC CARS: I'm not interested. When my wife and I can drive across the country, switching off driving and stopping only for a few quick pit stops along the way, maybe I'll reconsider. True, we haven't done this often, but we have done it. I like options. I like freedom. Electric cars don't offer that freedom. And, at least for time being, electric cars cost way too much.

    GEOTHERMAL, WIND, etc.: I don't see any being built around here. Once I feed my family, pay off my mortgage, have a nest egg ready for my kids' education and my retirement, and establish my family's safety and prosperity, I'll sit down with you and discuss (over a beer) geothermal, along with what's going on in China, Indonesia, Nigeria and all the rest.

    I need to get my immediate priorities squared away first. When you're struggling to feed the family and buy gas to get to work and the supermarket, as inflation soars, as violent crime surges, its hard to focus on the new swimming pool you want... or the geothermal plant others want.
     
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I brought up gas price as one of the steps European countries have taken.

    They have high gas tax, rivaling the actual cost of the gas, and use the revenue to fund the country, lowering the requirement for other taxes.
     
  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sales taxes are the most regressive taxes, placing most of the burden on those who can least afford it.
     
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  14. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Germans say, "No, thanks."
    Climate Change At Bottom Of List Of Worries For German Households, Comprehensive 8-Year Survey Shows
    By P Gosselin on 21. May 2022

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    “Surprising results”: Germans are much more worried about the economy, peace and health than they are about “climate change”, a comprehensive series of surveys reveals.

    Part 3 of the most recent German Klimaschau here looks at five recent surveys of some 2000 German private households conducted since 2012 by market research group FORSA. The surveys were commissioned by the Leibniz Institute for Economic Research. . . .
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Tell me, who pays for most of that gas tax?

    The billionaire that has so much money they could not care less how much gas costs, and likely works out of his house anyways?

    Or...

    The wage earner that struggles to keep their 10 year old care still operating and able to pass smog checks, and a ten cent a gallon increase in gas means they do without something else?

    Well, the answer should be obvious, the poor people are the ones that take it in the arse when taxes like that increase. Especially as in most of the country, they have no alternative.

    And yes, for many years I did commute some long distances. In LA, I would drive 10 miles to the train station, then take three trains-subways to get to work. Then when I worked in San Francisco, I drove 15 miles to the terminal, then took a ferry to the city. Then walked the last 3/4 of a mile to work.

    But for most people, such really does not work. I car pool to work, but if I tried to take the bus, it would take three of them and still a half mile walk to cover less than 5 miles. And take so much time, it would to be honest be faster to just walk there. The simple fact is, almost nobody who screams "public transit" ever takes it I believe.

    And ironically, one I have met and talked to many times that actually does is Ed Begley Jr. He actually does use public transit all the time, and at one time frequently stopped at a coffee shop near where I worked. But I would love to see one try to live in say Fresno or Redding and try to have any kind of a life with public transportation.
     
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  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - this is the politics of it. There are large numbers of deniers.
     
  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I didn't suggest we should do a flat out increase in gas tax in America.

    I'm pointing out that European countries HAVE instituted startlingly high gas tax and have figured out how to make that work.
     
  19. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Simple. Smaller cities, and higher population density.

    The population density of Germany is 240 per square kilometer. In Berlin, it is 4,227. In England, 276 and in London 5,701.

    That kind of population density makes mass transit very easy and affordable.

    Now, let's compare that to the US.

    Where the population density is a staggering 36 per square kilometer. In California, it is a whopping 97 per square kilometer. In Los Angeles, a staggering 2,910 per square kilometer. And yes, the adjectives are satirical.

    Where I live, it is just over 400 per square kilometer. Where I lived until 2 years ago, around 225 per square kilometer.

    Do you see now why it works in Europe, and not the US? You require a dense population to make mass transit possible. And outside of a few major cities in the US, that is simply not there. And what there is is not very efficient, because of the lack of riders and the large distances they have to travel with few riders.

    As is commonly the case, you still refuse to try and follow the logic for why things are. You simply say "they do it in Europe!", and do not even seem to think about why and how they can do it there, and we can not do it here.

    And before you even try to say that is not always the case, I will beat you to the punch. Because I have also lived in Japan, where the density is 340 people per square kilometer. However, like in the US there is a lot of farmland and open areas between the cities. But go to a big city like Tokyo, the density skyrockets to a staggering 6,158 per square kilometer. The entire country is over 3 times more dense than California, and their largest city is over twice the density of LA.

    I have lived in many countries, and in some of the largest cities in the US. I have also lived in cities so small that there was not even a street light in it, and almost all of the town was related. I have even taken public transit in many of them, and it is always an interesting experience. Like taking a ticket when I got on a bus in Japan, because travel on them was zoned. A big board on the front tells you when you cross a new zone, and how much you will have to pay when you get off. I want to say my normal trip on them was about 20 miles, and ¥500 (1990 prices, ¥134 to the $1US).

    But the density of that prefecture was about 1,100 people per square km. The entire prefecture was roughly the size of Los Angeles, and the largest city had a density of 7,939 people per square kilometer.

    Oh, and ever since I first met my ex-wife, she would go on and on about how incredible the mass transit system was where she came from. That there were always busses and trains to take her and her family almost everywhere. And she moaned how once she moved to the US, it was nothing like that at all.

    She also like you could never understand that Buenos Aires had a population density of over 13,000 per square kilometer. So of course they had a good mass transit system, it was the only way to travel because almost nobody had cars.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
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  20. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Advocacy of an economic basis for renewable power generation is delusional.
    Weather-Dependent Power Generation
    Guest Blogger
    Any assertion that “Renewables” are reaching cost parity with conventional power generation is patently false. . . .
     
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  21. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Probably because he is brilliant and successful.
     
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  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  23. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    So was Charles Ponzi, Bernie Madoff, Michael Milken, Elizabeth Holmes, and Barry Minkow.

    Does not mean that they are not crooks, and he will not see it eventually crumble around him. He has built a shaky house of cards on things that he has not delivered, and the things he does deliver end up nothing like he promised. I can go on and on about his many failures, and he has barely any successes.

    But like Steve Jobs, he has built this cult of personality around him, and the sheep that follow him will believe anything he says.

     
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  24. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I am continuously amused how folks that fail constantly categorize ambitious, energetic people as con men or crooks. Today's libs would have condemned Tom Edison, Jonas Salk, Henry Ford, the Wright Brothers and Alexander Graham Bell as being evil people just out to rip off the middle class. How sad that we have sunk so low as a society that we are jealous and envious of successful people. We use to consider them role models to be emulated. You remember... back when success was considered a GOOD thing... remember?
     
  25. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Do not confuse what I say about Elron Musk with other successful people. I do not say things like that about say Bill Gates, Steve Woznick, or a great many others.

    But look at what he has done. Hyperloop has been a black hole that has at most produced cars driven by people slowly in tunnels. That even a 60 year old WED PeopleMover was more efficient and required less cost and people to operate. Tesla Trucks? The Boring Company? Tesla Roofs? Hell, even SpaceX is well behind schedule, and way over budget. Trips to Mars within 7 years? The man has an amazing ability to make outrageous claims, and for some damned reason everybody forgets all about them once made (unless they are trying to defend him), and his slew of past failures.

    DO not confuse my calling out a single con man with accusing all inventors. The man promises everything and never delivers. Just quietly sweeps them under the rug and pretends they never happened. Hell, one of the most famous things he actually did recently he actually stole from a 1981 comic and movie. Very "original".
     

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