Climate Control v Gun Control

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Maximatic, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    Due to the overwhelming nature of the evidence, we'll start with closing statements.

    1) No human or group of humans has ever been harmed by weather that they could have prevented.

    2) Millions of people have been disarmed and subsequently killed by their own government.

    Many people tell us we should worry about 1, and that we should not worry about 2.

    Why should we take such people seriously?
     
  2. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    Things that have never happened before:

    Coastal cities wiped out by 19' sea-level rise due to melting of all ice on the planet due to human activity.

    Humans intentionally manipulating weather or climate of any kind by giving money to their governments(or sacrificing virgins or children, or giving money to priests, or falling for any other kind of rainmaking scam).

    10% of GDP lost per year to warmer weather.
     
  3. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    Things that have happened before:

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, 1-2 million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
     
  4. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    Interesting comparison.
     
  5. God & Country

    God & Country Well-Known Member

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    Gun Control and Global Warming. The first as the gun grabbers see it will NEVER happen. The second has NEVER happened. Just because you say something repeatedly doesn't make it more credible.
     
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  6. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    People have already died from climate change. And since it is almost certainly caused by human activities, in principle it was preventable; just not foreseeable until recently.

    Never in history have humans been threatened with human-caused catastrophic changes in the climate. Your argument has no logical consistency.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    800,000 people die from heart disease every year in the US - 2200 a day.

    That is twice as many Americans as died fighting WWII. So which matters more, heart disease or gun ownership. Shouldn't we stop worrying about gun rights until no one has heart disease?
     
  8. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Gun control and seizing all guns is not the same thing. I think we are all tired of this BS comparison. The whole "If I can't buy a full-auto machine gun and a rocket launcher an carry them into schools anytime I want to, the government will come and kill us all" argument doesn't really pan out.

    Neither does the "good guy with a gun" argument, since most people with guns do not have any type of training or experience, and are more likely to hurt innocent people than stop a criminal. It literally takes 7 hours to get a carry conceal license in Texas. They require no firearms training or safety training except for a video you have to watch. You don't even have to know where the parts of the gun, such as the safety switch, are
     
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  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Give us an example of someone with a CCW accidentally killing someone in a self defense scenario. They're not more likely to hurt innocent people, that's completely false.

    Those that get a CCW are the most law abiding group of people in America. There are at least 15 million of them out there, and every state studied shows that those with CCW licenses lose those licenses at a fraction of 1%. That fraction of 1% are losing their licenses mainly by carrying their firearms into post offices and other prohibited spaces....not killing other people.

    Even the NCVS, the most conservative estimate of defensive gun usage, found over 100k cases per year of using a firearm for defensive purposes.

    Your post is hysterical garbage with no basis in reality.
     
  10. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Here is one of the best examples. A "good guy with a gun" shoots a carjacking victim in the head because he tried to run in guns blazing like Rambo to stop the carjacker.
    http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/264755/carjacking-gone-wrong-houston-texas/




    A CCW permit doesn't mean you have the training or experience to be in a tactical situation. Most states require little or no training to get a CCW.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  11. Scampi

    Scampi Active Member

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    And you should consult a few facts before offering an opinion. Of the 30,000 plus deaths annually in the US and how many are the direct result of protecting the gun owner?
    The answer is few if any. Guns in the home where no safety precautions are followed result in death and injury to ones nearest and dearest. From 1960 to the present day arming private citizens have resulted in more deaths of Americans than the combined losses on the armed forces in all wars including that revolution on 1776.
    But you ignore the cost because you love playing with guns i.e. a gun makes the little man feel big.
     
  12. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Invalid metric: A firearm need not be discharged when successfully used in self-defens,e thus the number of people killed as a result of defensive gun use does not matter.

    According to the rabidly anti-gun Violence Policy Center, for every gun used to commit suicide, 3 are used in self-defense; for every gun used to commit murder, 8 are used in self-defense.

    But you ignore the benefit because guns scare you and you want the state to protect you from your irrational fears.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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  13. Capitalism

    Capitalism Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah it's not like humans have been around for much. Oh wait... We survived an ice age, Massive volcanic eruptions, and extreme fluctuations in all of the gasses that make up our atmosphere, yet we're still here.

    Run now chicken little, no ones listening.
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL, really? Name them.
     
  15. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Raw Story huh? You realize that is an extreme far left rag right?

    That story has an unidentified victim, unidentified attackers and an unidentified shooter who supposedly shot at them, picked up his shell casings (lol) and shot the guy in the head according to the story.

    However, the unidentified victim survived according to the story. What did he shoot him with, a Red Ryder?

    There are no verifiable media reports with any information on this supposed shooting, no updates, no major news outlet coverage (and anti gun groups would have been all over this). I'm calling bull****.
     
  16. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    I know of no one who has died of climate change. I know of people who have died in hurricanes and the warmists claim we wouldn't have had that hurricane without global warming but that's the equivalent of the tobacco nazis claiming second-hand smoke is responsible for all SIDS deaths -- they have zero clue, it just sounds good.
     
  17. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your "feelings" about guns have no relevance to actuality.

    Do you have any evidence to support your feelings?

    How many people a year are shot by accident by the police each year?

    How many people are accidentally shot by concealed or open carry holders a year?

    Please know there are less than a million police officers in the US, and at least 13 million who have carry permits.
    http://crimeresearch.org/2015/07/ne...rgest-increase-ever-in-the-number-of-permits/
     
  18. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok I'll give you some facts.

    First of all, you start with the disingenuous argument of 30,000 deaths, where 2/3's of that number is suicides. Despite their gun laws, France has a higher suicide rate than the US and Austrailias suicide rate is the highest it's been in 10+ years. So you can take the "guns cause suicide" baloney somewhere else.

    I already explained that even the MOST conservative estimate of defensive gun uses is over 100k in a study by NCVS which isn't a pro-gun establishment to say the least. Most defensive uses of a gun either don't involve the death of the attacker, or even a shot fired. That doesn't mean serious injury or death wasn't prevented by the would-be victim simply by having that firearm.

    Go look at the CCW revocation rates for any state. You will see that those of us legally armed commit violence at a rate far, far below the general public.

    Believe what you want however.

    Does it make you feel like a big man attempting to call my manhood into question?
     
  19. Scampi

    Scampi Active Member

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    I was a member of the British parachute regiment 2nd Battalion and served as a weapons instructor in my final years of service, and I don’t give a toss whether you believe that or not.

    Scared of guns? Too right I am, if they are carried around by a kid with a semi automatic rifle who has yet to take his first shave or Mrs. Robinson aged 64 with
    twitchy fingers and a hand gun, and so, if you have any sense, should you be.

    On the subject of being scared, don’t worry about the Isis bad guys coming to get you, you’re doing pretty well with the job by yourselves.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then as a member of the military you should know that we hand 18 year olds automatic weapons every day of the week in the military.

    How many of them turn around and start shooting their squad mates? Yeah.

    The truth about violence in this country is that it is centered around gangs, drugs and minority violence.

    Putting a gun in someone's hand doesn't make them a killer any more than that thing in your pants makes you a rapist.

    We're the one's doing a good job with ISIS? That's pretty funny coming from a Brit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  21. Scampi

    Scampi Active Member

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    That’s correct, but under strict rules and the first safety rule is rigorously applied i.e. ammunition is isolated from the weapon. The army is not that bright but their not so stupid to allow 20 guys living in a barrack room with guns and ammunition.
    Ammunition is issued when the need arises but every round has to be accounted for. I'm refering here to troops on their home base.
    Even on active service we were confined to the rules of engagement. Only in serving in an active war zone were the rules lifted. The rules for the British SAS are different

    The above is the British army rules for servicemen in the army; I haven’t any info on the American armed services but I can’t think that they differ greatly; perhaps one of your vets can help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  22. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am one of those vets.

    While you're correct about being in the barracks, storage of weapons is more about accountability and theft than it is anything else.

    We have 18 year olds out in the field or in combat zones walking around locked and loaded all day.

    We also have 15+ million americans walking around locked and loaded all day. I'm one of them. We don't go on shooting sprees, hell our group commits crime at such a low rate that it blows the general non-legally armed/unarmed population out of the water.

    The people shooting other people in the US belong to gangs and are involved in criminal enterprises, even the bulk of those getting shot are themselves criminals.

    Being a murderer or a thug or a rapist or being suicidal is about your character, not how many guns you own.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  23. Scampi

    Scampi Active Member

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    Thanks for the info, our personal weapon; the SA80, was with us at all times but no ammunition unless it was a need. I am sure you keep your arms under safe keeping but that can’t apply to others, two children a day are injured in America by loaded guns left unattended.

    As for me, I’ve had my fill of all weapons, seven years is enough and I live where the chance of receiving a gunshot wound is lower than being struck by lightening.
     
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thats fine. I just tire of the lies that are promulgated by gun banning organizations and people hear it and believe it for no reason.

    Firearms account for 0.3% of all fatal accidents in the United States. Fatal firearm accidents are at the lowest period in history since the statistic was started around 1900. You're 4 times more likely to die in a fire than you are accidentally shot to death.

    Taking freedom away from people because the world has irresponsible people is not the answer.

    If we do that, there will be no freedoms left.

    The people who have kids that end up getting accidentally shot are the same parents who put their children at risk in other ways.

    And yes, my firearms are on my person and/or in a safe. My 10 year old daughter has been taught usage, responsibility, safety and maintenance of firearms because one day she may need one to save her own life.

    I recommend you go have a look at the statistics of the people in the US who legally carry a concealed weapon. We are not criminals. We carry to protect our families and (sometimes) others from criminals.
     

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