College Grads Buried in Student Loan Debt, but Unwilling to Give Up Luxuries

Discussion in 'Finance' started by Darkbane, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. foxking

    foxking New Member

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    I believe the education system here is (North America) is pretty much expensive compared to other EU countries like Germany. They offer free higer education to every one. Most of the Asian students are migrating to such countires to get high wuwality education. While here what I can see is that most of our kids were sticked with a heavy burden in the sense of Student loan and after completing graduation they Were again chained by other kind of mortgages.. haha what a Great nation and great govts here...:fingerscrossed:
     
  2. Capitalism

    Capitalism Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I still say we do what Hitler did on this one. Your Summer's were spent working on infrastructure for a low wage but school was covered. (If you didn't want to go to school you could place your credits elsewhere as a full time employee for things like a car)

    Not only does it provide a work ethic for so many of these worthless people coming out of college but it also gives them a way to higher education.

    It would help repair the USA's crumbling infrastructure and help us in the long run with post-grad oppurtunities.
     
  3. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Lets not forget getting worthless degrees like Gender Studies or African American Studies.
     
  4. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Your link does not indicate that their "dream {has been} accomplished". The fact is that many people with college and advanced degrees are underemployed. Many say they would rather skip college. This indicates that their dreams have NOT been accomplished.


    As we have discussed previously on this forum, there are many people around (like me as an example) with a college degree (I have two of them) for which we have never found any use. These college degrees don't come cheap - there is a huge price to pay in terms of dollars and hours invested in getting them. All too often, however, they don't pan out as we expect. That is why so many of us look back and say we wished we had never gone to college.


    As for those purported "luxuries", bear in mind that people need to have late model cars if they are to travel for work and need good clothes along with hi tech phones and computers. Without them you often cannot earn a living. If people were forced to give these up in order to pay their loans many would be out of work.


    Therefore, it comes as no surprise to me that people are so troubled by loan payment requirements. They are very burdensome because all too often those highly expensive college degrees are useless.
     
  5. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1. Less than half (45 percent) were willing to cut what they spend on eating out.
    (maybe they hardly ever went out, nothign to cut)
    2. Just 46 percent said they’d cut their entertainment and social event expenses.
    (maybe they were already cut to the bare min)
    3. A mere 40 percent were willing to limit their housing expenses (rent or mortgage).
    (maybe they were already cut to the bare min)
    4. Only half of millennials were willing to slash their spending on clothes, shoes and accessories.
    (maybe they were already cut to the bare min)
     
  7. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    "maybe maybe maybe maybe"... let me know when you have something of substance rather than maybe... maybe I could argue things and maybe I could make other things up and maybe I could bring something else into the fold and maybe I could just say maybe and somehow defend the remarkable survey this was, because it was remarkable that so many gave the responses they did... but maybe all these kids will end up making ridiculous sums of money and maybe none of this will matter, maybe... maybe nothing good will happen the rest of their lives, maybe they will live at home with their parents until they die and take over their home, maybe they will inherit money from a grandparent and pay off their tuition, maybe they will all move to colorado to smoke pot, maybe they will read your message and say, yeah maybe!

    no matter how you want to spin a maybe, a third still said they would have skipped college had they known the results they have today were what they would achieve...

    P.S. maybe they'll revive a dead thread from april... maybe...
     
  8. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    I will agree that some have more apparent value than others... but even those degrees are worthless if you don't make use of them... its all about finding ways to use your knowledge... its not just a default loss... there are many people with the two degrees you cited that are very successful with them, and many with them, who are not... but I also know of people with law degrees or economic degrees, who never found the right fit someplace to maximize their potential, nothing is a sure thing... but I will agree there is a higher degree of value in some, but that does not mean there is no potential in others...
     
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that was the point, that poll says nothign as we do not know what their actual situations are... glad your 'getting' it as that was the goal of my post

    .
     
  10. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    maybe we know that whatever their situation is, they've determined its not worth changing to pay back the money... we know that for a fact... so we do know something... you however want to bring speculation and what ifs into it and somehow excuse it away as being less important or significant, to them its significant... either way I notice you dodged addressing the THIRD would said they would never have pursued a degree if they realized what the outcome of it all was as their current life sits... fact...
     
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no, we do not know that, that is the point, maybe they can't change anymore then they already have

    you want to bring your speculation into it and ignore all other possibilities

    not avoiding that question, I agree, many feel so strapped by the debt that wish they never would of tried to better themselves that way, what do you suggest we do about it?

    .
     
  12. GeddonM3

    GeddonM3 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds logical, simply work and get the benefits.
     
  13. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    whats MY speculation? I'm only responding to YOUR speculation... I cited what the survey revealed by those participating in it, a large number of them were unwilling to cut back in their lives in certain categories in order to pay for their education... thats not my speculation, thats me posting the information the survey recorded per the graduates who did NOT want to lower their entertainment and luxuries... you're the one speculating the numbers are so low it won't make a difference so why worry about it... however we do know for a fact there is a percentage who were unwilling to cut back on unnecessary things, irregardless of the amount they are... this is a fact, not speculation, or a lack of information, its a cold hard fact...

    if you want to know what I think we should do about the cost of education, I've cited in hundreds of postings on this website numerous ways we could immediately reduce their costs, but since I know you will say "pics or it didn't happen" why don't I just give a brief summary... how about universities with waiting lists on pre-req classes immediately eliminate that waiting list, or lose federal funding since they are not meeting the needs of the students, and instead are offering all sorts of wasteful classes that are not required and are acknowledge and recognized as electives they use for prestige... if we could eliminate incoming students, who some spend their entire first year taking blowoff courses while waiting to get priority placement in their second year, we could save a percentage of students an ENTIRE year of debt...

    so now we saved some students an entire year of debt... thats significant I'd say... what if instead of loans being given to anyone who apply, we only allow public guaranteed loans to go to public universities, to cut down on the for-profit institutions who have a horrendous track record of accepting people they know will likely fail or drop out after a couple years, but they don't care because they got paid so why worry when the check cashed... this will do a couple things, it will put pressure on those for-profit institutes to modify their entire business model as they will now have to assist students in getting loans from private banks, which if the student fails and never graduates and gets saddled with debt, can easily expunge that debt in a bankruptcy now... granted I realize most students won't get loans from private banks, some will, but it will now be a far more equalized process instead of these unforgivable loans that get often abused...

    how about we dive into compensation at these public universities, now that I will have ruined the business model of for-profit institutions, and most poor students will never qualify for education at for-profit or private institutions since they won't qualify for loans, we should address the immense waste and pay many across this country receive... when was the last time you saw a public university lock raises into the inflation rate, if we went back and reviewed the past 40 years, you would see their pay raises are well above inflation which means they are receiving an immensely generous pay raise without reason in many cases, merely a union contract from a union that controls the elected officials put into office who oversee the approvals for those contracts... you scratch my back I scratch yours... why don't we pass a law locking in these public institutions to inflation, so we can never again have wild rampant wasteful contracts that don't serve the public, but only the elected officials who use their promises of money to get into office to hold power... you realize if we did this, the average public university would cost roughly 20% less today than it already does?

    so we reduce 20% of the cost, we reduce a year of wasted costs waiting to take pre-req courses... we just saved the average students tens of thousands of dollars overnight by making some simple changes that really won't upset the balance of things at all... now some will say, but you'll lose all the great public university educators, because they will run for the private system, no they won't, remember, we made it so government backed loans that can't be expunged in a bankruptcy can only be used at a public university, if anything we're going to reverse the trend and actually shrink private schools and grow public schools as many loans were used at the prestige chasing private institutes... so more will be forced to come into the public system, as more students can't afford the private places on their own... but it won't take away that option to students, just ensure that public dollars that can't be expunged, only go to public institutions that we HOLD ACCOUNTABLE for those dollars by ensuring students are the priority, and not the unions and prestige chasers who have come to chair the committees running them...

    anyhow I said this would be a brief summary right, I could add dozens of more paragraphs of brief ideas, and I could add hundreds of pages of more detailed information on how that works, and the impacts on budgets, and I could essentially "show my homework"... but you could just search the countless threads I've posted in railing on the waste and abuse of the public system... and how students are the victims of the profiteering gluttons, the employees...

    P.S. but under NO circumstances, do we give them free education, that doesn't address waste and costs, it only ensures they will continue and grow... and thats our problems, all we're doing is treating the pain of the wound, but we never treat the wound, so the wound will never heal and be fixed, so long as our method of addressing the problem is just to treat the immediate pain... eventually that too will balloon and grow and soon we won't be able to even treat the pain either... but this notion being pushed we guarantee "free" education does NOTHING to address cost and waste, it only guarantees they will continue to expand and grow and hurt us more down the road...
     
  14. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Your "knowing" people is simply anecdotal. An engineer is much more likely to have employment in a number of fields then someone with a BS degree like Gender Studies ( Whatever that is)
     
  15. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    I think my point whizzed right over your head, if that engineer, doesn't make use of his degree, its worthless... what if the person is a mechanical engineer, but they move back to a small community where opportunities for a mechanical engineer simply don't exist, the degree becomes worthless in that community with limited opportunity... maybe he decides what he really wants to do in life is make pottery, and his engineering degree becomes worthless because he didn't need that degree to make pottery... there are countless examples where a degree in high demand can still be worthless...

    like I said, which you seem to be completely ignoring, I agreed some degrees have more apparent value than others, simply as a result of supply and demand for the most part... but simply getting a degree in something with less demand and high supply, does not automatically make it useless, many people will graduate with what BOTH of us agree are useless degrees, yet they will use that degree and knowledge learned, and make a very successful living and buck the trend we BOTH agree there is stacked against them... so its not the degree you get as the final factor, its how you use it...
     
  16. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Wrong once again. An engineer is much likely to be gainfully employed PERIOD than someone with a worthless degree. The degrees of freedom are immense. An mechanical engineer can work in aerospace, petroleum or mining. In addition, you can move to the financial or management side. Virtually all Chinese tech and manufacturing mid and upper level management are engineer trained. Then there is the legal side with patent law. You simply can't do this with sociology or gender studies. I don't think you quite get it.
     
  17. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    and once again you completely ignored the examples I provided where he would struggle to gain employment, by choice or circumstance... if he CHOSE to move back to the small town he came from, where opportunity for a mechanical engineer in a small town simply are few and far between, his degree has little to no value because he isn't making use of the degree by moving someplace else where he can capitalize on its worth... you seem to be grossly ignoring my very valid points, that the degree has less to do with its worth, more so than the person using it to its fullest... what the (*)(*)(*)(*) does patent law or anything else you rambled on have to do with anything, you're just now saying things that have no relevant discussion with the point I am making, do you not understand the VERY simple point I am making and are struggling to say anything?

    if you get a degree, but don't put yourself in a position to utilize it, its a worthless degree, no matter how much potential upside it currently has... which means even the most useless degree, can have more realized value than the one with the greatest potential... all because someone didn't utilize it... so being able to utilize the degree has far more impact than the degree itself as the ultimate determining factor... in this example, a gender studies degree, which we BOTH agree is practically useless in society, can in this case have more value than an engineering degree to a guy living in bum(*)(*)(*)(*) idaho with nothing around to utilize the degree in...

    stop letting your blinders get in the way of the simple point... most engineers will go on to be more "successful" in terms of monetary compensation than a gender studies graduate... but if that engineer never actually takes those jobs and instead makes pottery, his degree is absolutely worthless because he never utilized it... stop trying to stretch this into a weiner measurement contest and understand the simple underlying concept... a degree is worthless unless its utilized, if he doesn't utilized it, its worthless!
     
  18. QLB

    QLB Well-Known Member

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    Huh, many engineers work from home and there are two groups near me who work in the oil patch in small towns because they like it that way. You don't have a clue about what you're talking about. One of my "neighbors" who lives about a mile away is a retired software engineer and teaches and tutors upper level math at the local rural high school. You've also ignored that from a % standpoint an engineer is more likely to have gainful employment than someone with a worthless degree.
     
  19. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Amazing how law school graduates have a HIGHER unemployment rate than do college graduates.

    How I wish I had never gone to college or law school. Life would have been far better for me. And there are THOUSANDS who say the same.
     
  20. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    ''‘You’re going to go to college and do what? Work at McDonald’s?’ That was his famous line. He’d tell us we could have everything we want if we just work. He was right.”''


    https://newengland.com/yankee-magazine/living/profiles/born-to-be-a-tugboat-captain-traditionalists/



    True, his father got him into the business. But this is the better way to get ahead in life - be part of a prosperous family with connection. College will get most of you nowhere.
     
  21. Darkbane

    Darkbane Banned

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    well with law degrees and the success or failures of those individuals, it has many reasons why, the people I know with law degrees who are a little bitter happen to live in my state which is rather unique when it comes to law degrees, as long as you graduate from an accredited law school, there is essentially no "bar exam" required to practice law in my state... so this means every graduate here, is essentially grandfathered in to practicing law in this state, and most will move into other states and double dip essentially where they are authorized to practice law... so many of my old law school friends will move to minnesota/illinois and capitalize on the border and be able to cross over with cases, while many who remain within my state of wisconsin and don't move out, are essentially saturated with an immense amount of lawyers competing against them within this state, but the others have the benefit of restricted competition in those other states...

    I know this is just one scenario and example, but it shows how like I was attempting to point out to the thick headed person who kept arguing with me about the value of a degree not being in the industry its obtained, but the ability to put that degree to use... in this instance there are many who unless they move, and essentially apply to put their degree to use in another state, will not be able to realize its full potential because this market is just saturated with lawyers within and along the border, so the degree is worth less in the state its the easiest to obtain and practice within... friends of mine who move to other markets, have been able to make far better livings by moving, and those who specialize in fields, and moved to markets where there is high demand for that, have actualized even greater gains, but those who specialized in a field, but remained in an area that does not offer much potential for it, have been greatly disappointed in their success... not many needs for a patent attorney in the northwoods... ya know... but perhaps an environmental lawyer constantly battling miners, would have been a fantastic choice, but folks don't always go to where they can maximize potential...

    I don't regret my degrees, my original one allowed my to be very successful, and I went back for the second because I needed more knowledge and ability to get through government contracts and the legal system in one industry I ventured into and have since been able to excel at towards the end of my life... but merely getting a degree is no guarantee of success, and getting a degree in what we would recognize as a high potential industry, is no guarantee people can actualize that potential, its only potential until you find a way to maximize it, which simply won't be the case for all, on either end of the spectrum...
     
  22. GeddonM3

    GeddonM3 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, being part of a well off family has it's perks I agree. But at the same time going to college can have it's perks to if you are actually going to college to make something of yourself and not get involved in stupid ass SJW movements and do not major in retarded subjects such as liberal arts or some other kind of worthless degree. You can make connections in college if you do your work , sometimes your work will even speak for you.

    So yeah, a lot of people do go to college only to get a job at McDonalds because they are too worried about being a PC nutjob and trying to make the news over some stupid movement and (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing about how they are not "privileged" while attending a school that cost $30k a semester .

    I tell you what , I didn't finish college and my family was not even close to well off. But I sure as hell don't make the money I do by sitting on my ass and waiting for someone to give me opportunities. I go create them, just like Trump did with what his father gave him and what other college graduates do while getting a degree that is worth it.
     
  23. foxking

    foxking New Member

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    Even our high school students are worried about the debts of their family(mostly about the credit scores of parents) and close relatives. Parents financial status will indirectly affect the credit score of Childeren. Some times some Sudents loans will be erased by Chapter 7 bankruptcy.( http://www.billfixer.com/bankruptcy-information/student-loans/ ).
    All these were the result of higher inconsistency in the financial status of Middle class who earn to live not to save.
     
  24. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    That's the key and is so much more important that merely getting a degree.

    As for "SJW" I was hoping to get some corporate job upon graduating. The only corporate job I got was working as a janitor. Had I been the only one with this problem, I'd readily see it was me. But I have come across enough people to say this is FAR more widespread than most would want to believe.
     
  25. MRogersNhood

    MRogersNhood Banned

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    I have to disagree with that.Corrupt politicians and school administration and Lobbyists are who is responsible.
    Not just leftists.
    School was MUCH cheaper when I went.They were already (just) starting to admit people that really weren't college material at the time.
    If you're not college material;You're not. Learn something else.
    But no..they push these people through and they rack up debt,many drop out.Yet they still owe $65K
    It's a shame because they are preying upon the youth.
     

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