Colorado Christian cakeshop sued a third time for discrimination.

Discussion in 'United States' started by chris155au, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh come on, you are really trying to take this to a tedious level about the cake, when it really isn't and never was about the cake but what is or isn't legislated. There are literally thousands of examples of how proprietors discriminate, like how McDonalds discriminates against everyone not looking for crappy fast food. Every single proprietor does this to some level. That is why this must be a legislated matter. If everyone is allowed to discriminate freely the market will decide, nobody will inherently have 'more' or 'less' protections than anyone else...
     
  2. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Religious belief is protected at the US Constitutional level in the 1st Amendment, sexual orientation is not even Federally protected and even if it was the Constitutional authority is the superior lawful authority unless you can show an amendment or a ratified treaty which applies can you? I don't care if some homosexuals or other party was denied if the man had a sound religious reason to refuse service it shouldn't be illegal or a fined offense. You do know the Bible condemns their lifestyle and in more than the OT and homosexual marriage is a big no-no to a decent percentage of Christians. And these people can go other places to get a cake its not like he is the only baker in town.
     
  3. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are right, this is about activist judges making unconstitutional rulings on matters that were never legislated. Not sure how that wasn't clear earlier...
     
  4. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Religious belief is protected from congressional legislation only — review the first two words of the amendment. It does not give them the ability to impose those believes into legal structure or upon others who are unwilling. If Christians want to be allowed to deny services to others because of their chosen religious preferences they should expect retaliation in kind. If you are fine with people being fired from the jobs because they wear a crucifix to work against company dress code then we can allow the open discrimination Christians seem to demand so intensely.

    I don’t care what some thousand year old book says — that was written by man, edited by kings and transcribed from a language that even scholars cannot agree with the end result — in order to control others. It is wholly and completely irrelevant.
     
  5. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree, most Christians will probably not agree to equal treatment however, based on my experiences with family and people on this board. Directly below you @tkolter argues that religious rights demand special treatment because of the first amendment.

    They don’t want equality, they want special treatment but only for themselves.
     
  6. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think your assertion is wrong. The only 'special' treatment would result from what the market could bear, and there the majorities would flourish, but there would always be room from every group as well, and quite frankly most proprietors would serve just about anyone, a buck being a buck sort of thing...
     
  7. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    You have no clue about what was requested to be baked as can be seen by your postings. Explain how a cake with blue icing and no words goes against the belief of a Christian or are you going to say that the baker would refuse to bake that cake for anyone?

    You clearly just hate gays, bisexuals and trans and want them to be discriminated against. Perhaps you would like signs put up on store fronts saying "no gays, no bisexuals, no trans,.... no blacks allowed in"
     
  8. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    My experience suggests it's a helluva lot worse than that, and you're giving him way too much attention.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  9. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is irrelevant what was requested, if the proprietor doesn't carry that items it is their choice and their choice alone. What you are demanding would require legislation, that doesn't exist. Freedom falls to the individual, not fascist judges ruling by decree without legislative backing. Why do you folks hate freedom so much?

    What was your response to that music fest that was going to charge whites double?
     
  10. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right before Revelations.
     
  11. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Which baker does not have blue icing sugar or cannot make pink colored sponge?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  12. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I sure you can make thousands of products at every bakery, yet no bakery is selling thousands of products, they are limited to whatever it is the proprietor decides and the logistical challenges associated with baking time, ingredients and labor availability and such...
     
  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. You can deny entry or service for any reason, but the key is that you do not have to give the reason. There is absolutely no legal compulsion to tell the person why you're refusing entry. You can lie if you want to, but that would be your personal choice.

    As the business owner or manager acting for the owner, all you need do is ask the person to leave, or refuse them entry. Given that a business is private property, they cannot refuse to comply without themselves becoming the law breaker. If you think businesses aren't turning down custom all day, every day, all over the world, you're dreaming. I encounter 'no service' all the time. Could be they had to lock up early. Could be the freezer is out. Could be they're out of stock. Could be they have a headache. Could be they're on a bathroom break. Could be a million things, some of which are bound to be 'personal'. Only the truly masochistic (and deeply stupid) business owner actually declares any prejudice. Grandstanding always costs.
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I have no clue. But if he DID tell them, he's a first rate fool. He could have remained on good terms with his god and simply asked them to leave.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Who cares? They can keep whatever colours they want. Or no colours at all.
     
  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I know alright. Private property laws pertain. You can refuse entry or service to anyone, for any reason. It's no different to your home, legally. If YOU are unaware of this, you need to update your knowledge.
     
  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Only if he puts it exactly like that. And why would he do that? Is he insane?

    If I think you're the devil and don't want to sell you one of my t shirts, I would say "I'm terribly sorry, I need to close for business immediately". It's not a lie, since you are closing for business - for that individual. They can't argue. If they were to argue, then they are breaking the law, since they're on private property. But then only a criminal or nutjob is going to become difficult, and why on earth would you want to do business with a criminal or a nutjob?
     
  18. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Nobody is preventing the baker from believing whatever they want. The baker simply isn’t allowed to discriminate. His beliefs don’t exempt him from the law.
     
  19. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Your post is nothing to do with the fact that the baker said that he refused to make the cake because of his religious beliefs. And the baker does make cakes to customer specifications. He did not say that he was not capable of making it. All the excuses you keep giving but you refuse to face the fact that the baker refused to make the cake just because the customer is transgender. No different to refusing to serve a black person
     
  20. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    But the baker did not say that. He said that he could not serve transgenders.

    And to continue your example, if the T-Shirt owner made the same excuse to every black customer then he is breaking the law
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2019
  21. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was the bit where you believe it's only discrimination if you tell the customer why they're not being served. That is simple wrong in all jurisdictions which have this kind of public accommodation anti-discrimination law.
     
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I don't suspect that the state would care either way. Even if he didn't give a reason, the couple could've lied and said that he gave any number of reasons.

    Where do you get this from?
     
  23. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Which could be tomorrow couldn't it?
     
    Professor Peabody likes this.
  24. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    No, he sees baking this sort of cake as a conflict with his faith. Therefore, this wouldn't be keeping the two separate.

    Why Deus Irae?
     
  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yeah what legal rights?
     

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