Concealed carry body count surpasses 1,000

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    "Washington, DC —Innocent victims continue to die at the hands of private citizens with permits to carry concealed handguns according to ongoing research from the Violence Policy Center (VPC). Concealed handgun permit holders are responsible for at least 1,082 deaths not involving self defense since 2007, including 31 mass shootings that killed 147 people, VPC research shows."
    http://www.vpc.org/press/more-than-...killers-since-2007-latest-vpc-research-shows/

    It took just one mass shooting for Australia to realize that stricter gun control was needed. 31 mass shootings have been committed by concealed carry holders and America is not even close to agreeing about the necessity for more gun control.
     
  2. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    Vile Propaganda Center-cannot be believed. You claim you aren't a gun banner yet you fluff the Australian Gun ban and gun confiscation. How many of those CCW holders would not have had a gun if they did not have a license? its a stupid claim by a group that is well known for its dishonestly and propaganda

    an example of the lie

    is latest update to the VPC website comes the week after concealed handgun permit holder James T. Hodgkinson opened fire with an SKS assault rifle at a Congressional baseball game practice in Alexandria, Virginia that left five wounded, including House Majority Whip Steve Scalise and two Capitol Police officers. In the wake of the shooting, pro-gun Members of Congress and organizations have called for a rollback of laws regarding the carrying of concealed weapons.

    He did not have a CCW license that was valid in DC

    he used an SKS which is not an assault rifle

    the CCW had nothing to do with him having a rifle

    three lies right there from the VPC.

    The assault was an intentional premeditated action that again has nothing to do with a CCW
     
  3. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Take a closer look at who it is involved in those incidents. Do you really think denying a permit to them would have stopped them?

    And how many incidents were there that involved a perpetrator who didn't have a permit? Tell me that.
    (I'm guessing probably a whole lot more)

    D.C. the nation's capital, there are parts of it that are like microcosms of Detroit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  5. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    the VPC lies all the time. They want to claim the guy who shot up the GOP baseball practice

    He had a FIREARMS OWNER card in Illinois and that is not a CCW. and it wasn't valid in DC and he used a RIFLE

    they would have a point if they could prove lots of shootings happened only because a previously law abiding citizen ONLY had the firearm due to having a CCW. iF you take a gun with you to commit a crime, blaming that on you having a CCW is dishonest. But the VPC is all known for such propaganda. when they find a case where someone had a license, planned a crime and because of the license, were able to say get past a checkpoint by showing the license and then committed the crime, they'd have a point.
     
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  6. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not this bull**** again.

    So a little over 2 concealed carriers per year, per state, have been accused of killing someone.

    Meanwhile, non CCW's kill 240 per state per year, at an average of 12,000 homicides per year.

    So what you're saying is that if you have a CCW, you're 140 times less likely of shooting someone than someone who doesn't have a CCW.
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even lying and padding the stats as much as possible, they still make themselves look stupid.
     
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  8. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    PHardly anyone in Washington D.C. has a concealed carry permit.
    So this story can't help but to be a Lie.

    A real Lie by the Violence Propaganda Center.
     
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  9. papabear

    papabear Active Member

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    Whilst not wanting to get into an argument regarding the substantive issue being discussed.

    Your statistics based comment depends on the amount of people who have a CCW compared to non CCW. I.e. if these amounts are the same there is 100 CCW and 100 non CCW you are correct.

    If these amounts differ, then that difference impacts the likelihood.
     
  10. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    the OP is based on a dishonest argument. the OP is trying to argue that issuing people CCW permits increases illegal killings with firearms which is a complete lie. there are few cases where the person who does the shooting has the weapon because he had a permit. That retired cop who shot a guy in a movie theater in florida comes close but being a retired cop, he probably could carry even in states that are May issue
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's irrelevant, since the statistics are wrong.

    We have about 35 years worth of information on CCW holders. The revocation for ALL offenses is thousandths of one percent.
     
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  12. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Anything produced by the VPC can be dismissed out of hand. They are liars and charlatans, and their histrionics, rhetoric, and hyperbole invested in sham "studies" about the supposed criminal activity of CCW licensing is beyond laughable.
     
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  13. Bastiats libertarians

    Bastiats libertarians Well-Known Member

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    I have more respect for mother Jones that vpc
     
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  14. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    So in a span of ten years time, the violence policy center can point to one thousand eighty two unjustified homicides that somehow involve an individual with a supposedly valid concealed carry permit. That amounts to just slightly over one hundred and eight deaths per each year of the research period.

    As has been explained every other time this argument has arisen, the statistical evidence simply does not support the message that is being presented. Broken down, these figures amount to just barely more than two dead individuals, per state, per year. That is hardly an issue that is worth being alarmed over.

    If no such consensus has been reached after thirty one supposed mass shootings, then it is reasonable to conclude that no such consensus is ever going to be had in the untied states. Therefore there is no logical sense in continuing to raise the issue, as it will simply be ignored by the entire country. The united states has concluded for themselves that mass shootings are simply not a significant enough threat to be worried about to the point of feeling motivated to completely change their laws in response. Therefore it is nothing more than a waste of time to continue speaking about it.
     
  15. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    the vile propaganda center was started by an admitted communist agitator who was thrown out of the brady bunch for admitting their goal was banning guns. his first claim to fame was creating a hysterical spin chamber known as the "New Right watch" where he tried to emulate premier fear peddler Morris Dees of the SPLC. The New Right watch tried to milk donations from fearful blacks and Jews with dire predictions of "racist right" militias going on death rampages against minorities. Then in the mid 80s, the Vile Propagandist Josh Sugarmann wrote a paper that he distributed to anti gun talking heads in the media, telling them to use the ultra violent popular movies of the day (Scarface, Rambo, Delta Force etc) and link the massive machine gun carnage in those films with semi auto sporting rifles. He is among the most dishonest of what is a movement based on dishonesty, lies and hidden agendas.
     
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  16. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    and the VPC has constantly lied because many of those they claim are CCW holders were NOT at the time of the shootings or that the CCW was irrelevant. the GOP baseball team shooter only had a Illinois FOID which is NOT a ccw license and it was not valid in DC and not relevant as well
     
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  17. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is Vegas giants spouting BS all over again. Any response is a waste of time.
     
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  18. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide evidence that concealed carry holders are saving 100+ lives a year? If concealed carry is costing more lives than it's saving then how do you justify it? If concealed carry is doing more harm than good then how to justify it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  19. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen any evidence to support that claim.
     
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  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well let's look at how law abiding CCW holders are in Texas for 2016.

    About 1.2 million Texans out of the 27.5 million population have CCW's.

    Out of those 1.2 million people with CCW licenses, 2 were revoked for murder.

    Even when weighted by population size, those who have CCW's are clearly more law abiding than the general public.

    https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/LTC/Reports/ConvictionRatesReport2016.pdf
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    But that was because, and to quote Jim Jeffries, after Port Arthur the Australian government said. "You lot cannot be trusted with guns" and we said "fair enough" :D
     
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  22. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Is that not something ?
    People without concealed carry in Washington D.C.
    Are killing people ?
     
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  23. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    The general public includes all sorts of horrible people- serial killers, rapists, gangsters, drug dealers, etc. So it's not hard to make yourself look good by comparing yourself to the general public. But that's evading the issue of whether or not concealed carry does more harm than good.
     
  24. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Your Anti Gun agenda will never permit admitting that Guns are any good.
     
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  25. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Say what you want, those of us who lawfully carry guns are clearly far safer to be around than someone who doesn't have a CCW.

    I bet you didn't even look at my link, did you? The contrast is stark.

    Yes, the general public IS full of horrible people. That's exactly why we legally carry firearms, because those horrible people want to turn the law abiding into their victims.

    But to your point...

    Let's use the most conservative number of DGU's, which is about 100k. This is far less than the 500k-2 million that is often discussed. Let's use the low end.

    That's still nearly 10 times more lives saved than lives lost.

    When you also consider that most of those 11k-12k murders per year are themselves criminals......the benefit is clear.
     
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