(cont) Holocaust Memorial.......

Which one?

 

Wobbelin.

 

What about deploring the Nazies requires that I support the Iraq War?

 

Yes.

An internment camp.

No gas chambers.

 

The Laws came in when the Wall came down.

At first it was said that all Nazi Camps were exterminatiion Camps but those on German soil were proved not to have been, so then 'they' said. There were no exterminations on German soil, they were all done behind the, then, Iron Curtain ...so all proof was behind the Wall ..the Wall came down the Laws came in almost immediatly............I was living near Brussels I remember the disbelief .............so many Europeans know the truth, there were no exterminations.

 

But have the evil minds behind Iraq, have they faced justice?

You see, until the answer is that they have, I think people are hypocrites to wring their hands over people long since dead.

 

True, but if they were willing to do that to POWs, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to do worse to "undesirables."

 

So making people starve to death isn't "extermination?"

 

None of the Camps liberated by the Allies are said to be extermination Camps . None of them, not since 1960

'No Gassing In Dachau'
Shown below is the widely-quoted 1960 letter by Dr. Martin Broszat, translated from the Hamburg weekly Die Zeit under the headline "Keine Vergasung in Dachau" ("No Gassing in Dachau"). It appeared in the German edition of August 19, 1960, and in the US edition of August 26, 1960 (p. 14). Dr. Broszat writes in the name of the prestigious Institute for Contemporary History (Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte). He later served as director of the Munich-based archive and research center, which is funded by German taxpayers.

Here is a translation of the complete text of Broszat's letter:

Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed. The gas chamber in Dachau was never entirely finished or put "into operation." Hundreds of thousands of prisoners who perished in Dachau and other concentration camps in the Old Reich [that is, Germany in its borders of 1937] were victims, above all, of the catastrophic hygienic and provisioning conditions: according to official SS statistics, during the twelve months from July 1942 through June 1943 alone, 110,812 persons died of disease and hunger in all of the concentration camps of the Reich. The mass extermination of the Jews by gassing began in 1941-1942 and occurred exclusively in a few facilities selected and equipped with appropriate technical installations, above all in the occupied Polish territory (but at no place in the Old Reich): in Auschwitz-Birkenau, in Sobibor on the Bug [river], in Treblinka, Chelmno and Belzec.

It is at those places, but not in Bergen-Belsen, Dachau or Buchenwald, where the mass extermination facilities, spoken of in your article [in an earlier issue of Die Zeit], were built and disguised as shower baths or disinfection rooms. This necessary differentiation does not, of course, change anything regarding the criminal character of the facility that was the concentration camp. However, it may perhaps help eliminate the annoying confusion that arises from the fact that some ineducable people make use of a few arguments that, while correct, are polemically torn from the context, and that, rushing to respond to them are other people who, although they have the correct overall view, rely upon false or mistaken information.

Dr. M. Broszat
Institute for Contemporary History
Munich


The Allies had bombed the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of the place, the infrastructer was gone, Typhoid was rife and people were starving everywhere, it was total chaos. Of course Prisoners and inmates suffered.


First 6 Chapters are his experience ....of how it really was .........'atrocious enough !'

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/engl/RassArch/PRdebunk/PRdebunk1.html

 

You have to stick with what are facts.

There were no gas chambers or crematoria there, AFAIK.

It was an internment camp.

Conditions may well have been dire, by the time your grandad got there.

I would expect them to be, given that there had been a war raging on.

 

I was referring to the other camps. Wobbelin was a subcamp. The major camps had more "facilities."

 

Depends.

Was it done as policy?

On purpose?

Or like this..?

[video=youtube;aSUGZ1t1_fk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSUGZ1t1_fk[/video]

 

Most of the "research" you link to is notorious for its dubiousness.

I hate to tell you man, but you're being duped.

 

Yes.

There was a brothel for male inmates, for one thing.

And their own coined currency.

And orchestras.

Odd things for death camps, unless of course, they were not death camps.

 

It is true that the Allies engaged in something similar to a Holocaust when relocating Germans after the war.

It's not often talked about, but I'm aware of it.

 

More Onderzoek, right?

 

Yes.

And let us not fail to mention the bastard Red Army..

[video=youtube;TsOouDLL_EA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsOouDLL_EA[/video]

 

I don't think anyone (well other than a few usual suspects) would suggest that the Soviets were nice guys.

 

How do you get food to people when the railways and roads are gone ? We couldn't either even after liberation .....we had bombed the place to dust.

But you divert, that is not the argument ...the argument is that there was no purposful systermatic organized extermiation program.


Have you never read about Eisenhowers Death camps ? About the Allies POW Camps ? About the Internment of the Japanese ? You think we were any better ? We were not.

 

Rassinier is not by any single historian disbelieved. .....Not one. Not one single one.
The first 6 chapters are of his experience only after that he discusses .............no one can say they know about the Camps without reading Rassinier, exterminists and revisionists alike .................there is no dispute about this mans horrific story. ........
This is the only place on line that I can find the translation of his book.

 

Eisenhower ordered the deliberate starvation of one million Germans, mainly farmers.

 

Naturally you are unaware of the various critiques of his ww2 books. Historians don't "disbelieve", they examine the case presented, they review source materials, they analyse evidence, and then they determine the validity of the narrative. The validity of rassinier's narratives have been called into question. No one questions the validity of his documented experience in Buchenwald, but they do criticise many of his conclusions extrapolated from those experiences - such as the rejection of the holocaust, the gassings etc.

One has to question this minority position since he didn't see the Einsatzgruppen campaign as a deliberate attempt at liquidation. Such blatant documented proof of an organized plan of extermination has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by nazi field reports, nazi photos and movies, eyewitnesses (not jews), confessions, testimony and forensic evidence like hundreds of mass graves.

there isn't a credible source that deniers can point to.
All of their "champions" are either loons, charlatans, jew haters, nazi apologists, or simple knuckledraggers.

 

How does this have relevance to the nazi's campaign to exterminate the Rom?

 

More than 80,000 people a month were being killed at Aushwitz if not then explain this concrete fact from this captured Nazi document:

80,000 Cremation Capacity Per Month Not Sufficient for Auschwitz - New Document

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/topf/

Those errors aside, there is still simply no question about the burning times of the ovens. In 1939, the firm of Topf and Sons was awarded a contract to build a Dachau furnace which had an estimated capacity of one corpse per hour per muffle (times two muffles). By increasing the air pressure, by July 1940 they had produced a furnace that could burn just under two corpses per hour per muffle (again, times two muffles). It required three hours of maintenance per day, a far cry from the twelve hours per day claimed by the IHR in question 45. (See Gutman et al., op. cit., pp. 185-186, 189-190.)

The crematoriums that were eventually installed at Auschwitz-Birkenau were massive. They were capable of disposing of several bodies per muffle in half an hour or so, and they could run for days at a time without maintenance. (There were difficulties eventually, however, and several of the ovens were out of service for months at a time.) Topf and Sons was awarded a patent in 1951, and the patent also states that a single muffle can cremate a corpse in half an hour.


http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar42.html

 

Jonsa, does anyone ever actually read what is written ?

What have I written in conjunction with the link to Rassiniers book ?

1) That It is the only translation of it on line.

2) Read the beginning if you want to know wjhat Camp life was really like. That the first six Chapters are of his experience ...only of his experience.

3) Later Chapters are his arguments.

So all I have put forward as suggested reading are the first six Chapters which are not disputed by anyone.

If I had put foreward reading the whole of this link I would debate it with you but I haven't so I am not going to .