Corona Virus Update

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by HereWeGoAgain, Mar 12, 2020.

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  1. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Researchers keep disappearing before they file a report
     
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  2. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    but you probably haven't seen any vampires ether ;-)
     
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  3. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    and for good reason ;-)
     
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  4. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Not that I’m aware of. Can’t say I’ve “seen” a protease inhibitor either, but I believe they exist! :) LOL

    I knew a guy back in the late 1980’s who was a “garlic for health” aficionado. He was riding his bicycle around the town he lived in up until he died at age 95. He reeked of garlic as did his entire house. I would not be surprised if it was one of his relatives that came up with odor free garlic supplements. :)
     
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  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  6. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    2 cases of omicron variant confirmed in U.K.; Fauci 'would not be surprised' if new strain is already in the U.S.

    Dr. Anthony Fauci told NBC News’ “Weekend TODAY” that he "would not be surprised" if the new coronavirus strain, called omicron, was already in the U.S. after the British health secretary confirmed two cases of the variant Saturday. The World Health Organization identified omicron as a "variant of concern" Friday.


    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...d9091aa0bbf4ef284dc0ddf7d4abb252027c596581efa


    ......no end in site.........:?: :wall::(
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
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  7. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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  8. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Your graph shows that being vaccinated reduces the probability of getting infected, being hospitalised and dieing. Is that the purpose of your post?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
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  9. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ Many who are reluctant to get poked may go for the latest ' old school ' vaccine entry that may become available next year. So far the trial results have been very good.

    file-20211117-21-mrrzw3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ooops! Seems like they are passing out free tin foil again!
    upload_2021-11-28_18-34-9.jpeg
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  12. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A Pfizer whistleblower says your chance of being infected rises 300% after vaccination.
     
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  14. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Which whistleblower is this? There is actual data and your histogram that shows that claim is crap. Did you not understand what your histogram shows?
     
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  15. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    They certainly clear out my nasal passages at times!
     
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  16. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    The above post contains misleading misinformation.

    The first adenovirus vector vaccine received FDA approval in 2019. mRNA technology for vaccines has “been around for YEARS” as well. Both mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccines are brand new to the US human vaccine market.
     
  17. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Omicron poses 'very high' global risk, WHO warns, as new Covid variant spreads and countries close borders

    The global risk of the new omicron variant is “very high,” the World Health Organization said Monday, as more countries reported cases of the variant and tightened their borders despite pleas for caution and dismay from some

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...d9091aa0bbf4ef284dc0ddf7d4abb252027c596581efa
     
  18. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is correct, but I don't think that the high-quality poster @Bowerbird would ever intentionally post misleading information. She may have simply made a mistake regarding how ancient this technology and similar technologies is/are, versus when an adenovirus vector vaccine was actually approved for human use by a major agency. The former is ancient. The latter is recent.

    Here's the history of this technology:

    Since the 1950's - that is, almost 70 years ago, we had developed adenovirus-based vaccines, which are distinct from adenoviral vectors. The U.S. military, for instance, administered live Ad types 4 (Ad4) and 7 (Ad7) to recruits in the 1950s.

    The technology of vectors started being developed in the mid-seventies, by Dr. J. Michael Bishop and Dr. Harold Varmus, who first demonstrated that gamma-retroviruses could acquire cellular genes, so that we could use those genes for gene therapy (and later, for vaccines).

    Then, researchers started creating adenoviral vectors in the 1980s, testing replication-defective Ad vectors, mostly Adenovirus type 5 (Ad5), with the intent of doing gene therapy.

    There was an accident in 1999 when a recipient of an Ad5 gene therapy mega-dose died, a man named Jesse Gelsinger. He developed jaundice, blood clots, kidney and lung failures, and brain death. (Blood clots associated with adenovirus vectors have been known to Medicine for more than two decades).

    That unfortunate event set things back. Scientists stopped using the technology for several years. We walked away from high dose adenoviral gene therapy, but then the technology was recovered, with a different goal: an adenovirus vector vaccine (much smaller dose), that is, an adenovirus that would carry to a host human cell, a nucleic acid codifying for an antigen typical of another infectious agent. It was first tried for HIV, which didn't pay off, mostly due to antigen variability. Then it was tried for a variety of pathogens, such as Zika, influenza virus, RSV, and malaria. And then, two were made for Ebola.

    While the other attempts were less successful, the Ebola ones worked. They were used without formal approval for Ebola outbreaks in West Africa from 2013 to 2016, and in the Democratic Republic of Congo in 2018 and 2019.

    The one used in the DRC, named rVSV-ZEBOV, started being developed in 2003 by the National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg, Canada, which is part of the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC). The Canadian agency then licensed it to a small company, NewLink Genetics, which then licensed it to Big Pharma Merck in 2014.

    After the successful use of the rVSV-ZEBOV (brand name Ervebo) in 2018 in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Merck applied for EMA and FDA approval. The European Medicine Agency approved it in November 2019, followed by FDA in December 2019.

    So, the bottom line is:

    Adenovirus-based vaccines have existed since the 1950's (not exactly gene therapy or a vector).

    Research for adenovirus being used as a vector for gene therapy started in the mid-1970's.

    Adenovirus gene therapy has existed and has been used in humans since the 1980's (with a setback in 1999, and a pause).

    Adenovirus-vector vaccines for Ebola started being developed in 2003, and were finally used in human outbreaks of Ebola in Africa in 2013, without formal approval, and a different one in 2018.

    That second one from 2018, Merck's Ervebo, was first approved by a major regulatory agency (Europe's EMA) in November of 2019, followed by the FDA in December 2019.

    Next, we have the Oxford/AstraZeneca, the Sputnik V from the Gamaleya Institute in Moscow, and the Johnson and Johnson SARS-CoV-2 adenovirus vector vaccines, approved by various countries in 2020 (Sputnik V and Oxford AZ) and 2021 (J&J). They use Ad5, and the Sputnik V uses Ad5 for one dose, and Ad26 for the other dose.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  19. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    She knows. I’ve corrected her on this point numerous times over a period of several months. Here’s one instance.


    One HIV adenovirus vector vaccine caused increased HIV infections. I believe it’s in one of the links above. Found it.
    https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(20)32156-5/fulltext
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  20. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like I said, you are correct about the first human adenovirus vector vaccine being approved only in 2019. We said the same thing. I just didn't think that Bowerbird was saying that the technology is more ancient, with malicious intent. She's a nice poster, in my opinion. Even nice posters can make mistakes. I do make them, as you know (you're usually the one who points them out to me).

    But see, adenovirus-vector vaccines for influenza have indeed been tried.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951029/

    Observe that the article above has no fewer than 170 references. There was extensive research - and some limited production - of adenovirus-vector vaccines for various influenza viruses, in animals and also in humans, circa 2005-2010. Actually a couple dozen of them (see table 1), and some were used in humans. Like this one:

    "In a Phase I trial involving twenty-four healthy adult volunteers, intranasal or epicutaneous immunization with a replication defective Ad vector encoding the HA gene of A/PR/8/1934 (H1N1) influenza virus resulted in a fourfold increase in HI titers in 83% of the participants."

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15620476/

    You are again correct about the three platforms currently in use for the influenza vaccine in the United States. Neither is a viral vector one. Are there FDA-approved influenza vaccines that are made using the adenovirus-vector platform? No.

    But actually Bowerbird is not incorrect either. Adenovirus-vector vaccines for influenza WERE made (and used experimentally in humans, as shown above, with some success), and then the platform was later used for the SARS-CoV-2, by AstraZeneca (among two other makers), which is what she said.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    We have been “experimenting” with mRNA gene therapy technology for years as well. Since 1978 I believe. I don’t think that qualifies mRNA vaccines as “old school”. I don’t think the fact we’ve been experimenting with adenovirus vectors for years makes adenovirus vector vaccines “old school” either. Things we’ve experimented on that have never been approved by the FDA are not “old school” in my opinion.

    Of course you know I’m not disparaging either technology. I’m thankful both are becoming usable/mainstream. I just don’t see any sense making claims about them that are not accurate.
     
  22. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I know. I only addressed the adenovirus vectors, because that was what she was saying.
    I don't know, man. She merely said that the adenovirus vaccines have been around for "years." She didn't even say decades. And yes, the first of the two Ebola vaccines started being developed in 2003, and started being used in 2013, in an outbreak in West Africa. That is, 8 years ago, almost 9. Don't you think that this qualifies as "they've been around for years"? Maybe she misspoke when she said "old school," but similar platforms for gene therapy have existed since the 1980's... that's almost 4 decades... so "old school" is not so far-fetched. The technology has been around for a long, long time (like I said, research started in the mid-70's), and actual vaccines being injected into humans outside of clinical trials, in a real-life outbreak, that is, a non-experimental setting, have existed for almost 9 years.

    So, she wasn't entirely right, like I said, and I agreed with you. But she wasn't entirely wrong either, and I don't see her as a malicious poster. The "old school" is a bit of a hyperbole, but the "have been around for years" is actually accurate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  23. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    My problem is with trying to sell adenovirus vector vaccines as tried and true technology when it’s anything but. The reason they halted trials and were so careful in granting EUA for Covid AV vaccines (and correctly done in my opinion) is because of the negative history of adenovirus vector vaccines. She is continually claiming they are traditional/used for decades/used for influenza etc. None of which is true. Failed trials that don’t result in licensing don’t count as “used for decades” in my opinion. Sure, we all make mistakes. But this is plain misinformation.


     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  24. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, we used adenovirus vaccines in the 1950's, in the military, so there was a limited use decades ago.
    We have used adenovirus vectors for gene therapy for decades.
    Neither of these uses is an adenovirus vector vaccine. These technologies are close, but not the same thing. Thus the three colors I used.
    So if she is affirming that adenovirus vector vaccines are being used for decades, she is mistaken. For years, she is correct.
    We did make adenovirus vector influenza vaccines, but they were only used in experimental settings, that I know.
    Adenovirus vector vaccines have been first used outside of experimental settings, in 2013. And they got first approved in 2019. So, years is correct. Decades is not.
    -----------
    Yes, they have issues, mostly the clotting disorders, the thrombotic thrombocytopenic syndromes. The AstraZeneca is worse for that. I'm glad that it wasn't approved here. The J&J has the issue, but much more rarely.

    I agree with you that adenovirus vector vaccines are recent. They've been used in humans outside of experimental settings, for a little less than one decade. This use was limited to one disease, in two countries. So yes, calling them true and tried technology might be a stretch.

    Now, the interesting part is that now they are becoming true and tried technology... after being given to literally billions of people.
     
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  25. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yep! My bad! Got the two mixed! Thanks BTW for the information!
     
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