Corona Virus Update

Of course your link is no good.

 

Let me clarify, the vast majority of people who are vaccinated and still died from covid were primarily people who were severely compromised. I was not including people who have, for example, a highly compromised immune system.

Anyone trying to claim the vaccines don't work is lying.

 

It was when I posted the link and posted the pull quote. The state has changed their Covid dashboard I will try and find a new link…

My state is not unique as the links to Minnesota show.

 

Anyone trying to claim the vaccines are doing enough to protect everyone is lying.

Having a compromised immune system is primarily a result of not following health practices I’ve posted about that prevent infection and severe Covid. The large numbers of vaccinated deaths is precisely why health practices must augment vaccination.

 

Not every state or municipality wants this information out there but here’s NYC data.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

Since vaccination began, 24% of deaths have been fully vaccinated.



The facts are out there. You just have to be able to accept them. Most aren’t capable of accepting reality.

 

Do you know the existing approved sources that congress wants the funding to come from. The article implies the billion was to be extra over and above these?

 

Pretty much the only serious Covid cases we have left in the UK are among the stupid (Sorry, I mean the unvaccinated)

 

Do you have a source? I guess it’s possible, but that’s what we are told here. If you look at the data it tells a different story. I just posted NYC data above. It shows since vaccination began, 24% of deaths are vaccinated. States that make the data public range from 10-20% of TOTAL deaths since the pandemic began as being fully vaccinated.

Vaccination absolutely helps. But the headlines we read here are not reality. I’d be interested to know why vaccination would be so much more effective across the pond.

 

25 million people in China are currently in lockdown because of Covid. Enjoy the lull here, while it lasts.

 

Not really a source. Though I suppose one could be calculated, but its complex. We have a number of friends still at our large Hospital in Cambridge.
They say they have a few ICU Covid patients who are vaccinated, but these are ones with other major issues as well. And then far more who thought they were untouchable and haven't vaccinated. On top of this picture there are doctors regularly appearing on TV saying the same thing.
I'm sure you are right statistically as the overall number of serious Covid cases falls, so the percentage who are very aged and have other mitigating factors and failing immune systems will increase, skewing the figures for those vaccinated.
Another issue we have (Not sure if you do) is that we still record Covid hospitalisations even if the person was not admitted for Covid but subsequently tested positive.
This was a very minor percentage when the disease was raging, but is now much more significant.

To date every piece of data I find has to be pulled apart to try and get to the base line and that's not easy as ICU Covid patients are not in the same graph as Covid vaccinated patients, or Covid ICU patients by age or other contributory factors etc etc.

 

Deaths from Covid are less ambiguous than hospitalizations for sure. That’s why in this discussion I’m using deaths. It’s simpler to get to the truth. So no official data on vaccinated deaths in the UK? Not surprised. Only some states have the cajones to report it here. I’m not one to dismiss anecdotal evidence out of hand, ironically it’s anecdotal evidence that led me to look for official statistics. Two of my wife’s family members nearly died of Covid back in mid 2021 after being fully vaccinated. Made me dig into the actual data as opposed to media reports, public health reports that don’t include any data, and talking head doctors. Turns out (unsurprisingly) the data conflicts with the official narrative.

As another member pointed out, my own state has removed (hopefully temporarily) data from public access. Here it is as of March 22 when I first posted it.

In above posts there is data from NYC and Minnesota that is very similar. I just looked up Oregon and since vaccination began 24% of deaths were fully vaccinated.

I find it fascinating how early in the pandemic, if someone said it was the aged and immunocompromised dying of Covid that individual was castigated and told they were an unfeeling bastard. Now, as long as a person is vaccinated, their death can be written off because they are most likely over 65 years old and/or have comorbidities. The fact is in my state, people now care about the 2000+ deaths of unvaccinated individuals but care nothing about the 500 vaccinated deaths. In NYC nobody cares about the 2700+ deaths of individuals because they were vaccinated. It’s bizarre. They are mainly (70%) retired folks with heart problems or diabetes. Let them die. They virtue signaled and that’s what matters. Never mind we could save many of them with lifestyle changes and passive vaccination with monoclonal antibodies.

Statistics are interesting. Actual deaths of individuals and doing all we can to prevent their deaths is what I’m focused on. If statistics were what mattered, vaccination would be pointless because 96-99% of infected unvaccinated individuals don’t even require hospitalization. It’s easy to write off personal suffering and loss with statistics. Covid deniers did it all along. Now people who can’t accept facts about vaccination have co-opted the tactic. I find it sad, especially since the latter group roundly criticized the former group for the tactic until they adopted it themselves.

What’s even more concerning is the rapidly rising percentage of deaths that are fully vaccinated (and bolstered). In Oregon in September of 2021 there was a 59% vaccination rate and 21% of deaths were breakthrough cases. In February of 2022, there was a 69% vaccination rate and 38% of deaths were breakthrough cases. So vaccination rate increased 10% but death rate in the vaccinated increased by 80%! Not only is percentage deaths of vaccinated increasing substantially, it’s doing so at an accelerated rate. This is with a milder variant and antivirals not in play in September of 2021!

Yes, again we see a reversal in tribal tactics. We were told since elective procedures started back up that every reported Covid hospitalization was for Covid. Anyone disagreeing was called a kook and that doctors and hospitals and public health officials knew what they were doing and wouldn’t cook the books. Now that it’s advantageous to public health officials and politicians to make Covid numbers smaller there is a reversal—now all the sudden we care about accuracy of reporting and admit a hot test in the hospital doesn’t equate with Covid requiring hospitalization. Never mind we’ve denied that fact for a year and a half. LOL

What makes it even more interesting is the fact some places here are trying to break actual Covid hospitalizations out by one medical code—administration of dexamethasone. Of course since dexamethasone is contraindicated in all but cases requiring oxygen therapy or intubation, this leads to under reporting of Covid hospitalizations especially with Omicron that requires much less oxygen therapy than previous variants. So someone with cardiovascular, upper respiratory, gastrointestinal, dehydration, or cytokine storm symptoms from Covid requiring hospitalization do not get dexamethasone or get reported as Covid hospitalizations. We know Covid infection increases chance of heart attack and stroke by 3-8 times, so stroke and heart attacks caused by Covid and hospitalized will not be counted because they are not being given dexamethasone.

I find it fascinating that 2+ years into a pandemic we can’t figure out how to report if someone is hospitalized with or for Covid. It’s got to be incompetence or tomfoolery.

Yes, it’s a mess. As I say, incompetence or tomfoolery. Take your pick. It should be very straight forward and easy to report. Either these folks are incompetent or they don’t wish real, accurate information to be available. Then you throw in reporting by media, doctors, and public health that conflicts 180° with available hard data and it’s a real mess.

As an aside, I was thinking today about some of the things about this pandemic that have taken me by surprise. One is the inability of so many to accept hard data and actual research on Covid, instead preferring media stories, politicians opinions, and spin—I’m talking about both tribes. Another you reminded me of is my surprise at how many times I’ve been called stupid on a forum that frowns on ad hominem attack of individuals and groups.

 

@557
In order to get a real comparison here I need the same comparisons as I would in the UK.
Number of fully vaccinated people divided by number of those hospitalised/dead. And preferably average age.
Number of unvaccinated people divided by number of those hospitalised/dead. And preferably average age.
This is important for instance.
If By example only:
10 million people have been vaccinated and 500 died that's 1 in 20,000. 0.005%
And1 million people have not been vaccinated and 2,000 died that's 1 in 500. 2.0%
This is further complicated if the average age of vaccinated deaths is considerably higher than unvaccinated deaths, for one might expect deaths in the very elderly.
Do you have these figures, as they are the ones I can't get here.

• 185,131 Cases – Not Fully Vaccinated
• 98,938 Cases – Fully Vaccinated
• 6,082 Hospitalizations - Not Fully Vaccinated
• 1,245 Hospitalizations – Fully Vaccinated
• 2,018 Deaths - Not Fully Vaccinated
• 497 Deaths – Fully Vaccinated

 

It’s never all in one place. Or comprehensive for all time points. The Oregon data above I mentioned is all in this link. But I have to find corresponding data on vaccination rates for each of those months. That’s how I came up with the percentage of vaccinated deaths increasing 80% with a 10% rise in vaccination rate. This is the concerning metric. It means vaccine efficacy is fading drastically over time. Fourth boosters in Israel are showing little added protection that fades rapidly. Even with a milder variant and antivirals, we are losing vaccinated individuals at an accelerating rate.

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/covid19/Documents/DataReports/Breakthrough-Case-Report.pdf

There is no national data at all I’m aware of. Only a few states report tidbits. My state stopped reporting vaccinated vs unvaccinated deaths and removed existing data. At one time you could find weekly deaths by vaccination status for Massachusetts but not now. The Oregon data above is by month.

On age I can’t find data on average or median age of vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Oregon reports median age of breakthrough death being 80. But the overall average nationally has hovered around that area throughout the pandemic, only decreasing temporarily during delta. Maybe someone else does have side by side data. Since efficacy is lower in the aged I’m guessing the average age of breakthrough death is a bit higher. To me it doesn’t matter because I value the life of everyone, even the aged and those with comorbidities and we have ways to save them we are not utilizing.

Does that help answer your questions? Data that is straightforward and useful is very hard to find. If I missed something let me know I’ll look some more.

 

Its very difficult to do more than sympathise.
According to the report 2.8 million people in Oregan have been vaccinated out of a population of 4.3 million. So that seems low?
The report doesn't list whether the breakthroughs are Delta2 or Omicron, but we know Omicron avoids the vaccine in return for becoming a fairly mild nose and throat infection. So are the break throughs Omicron?
Another piece of data you might want to consider as I have in the UK is whether the Covid deaths are primarily due to Covid.
Our hospitals have numerous Covid patients but according to doctor friends they would almost certainly be in hospital even without Covid.
Many have typical end of life system failings and historically would have been finished off (Excuse my crudity) by Flu viruses but because of the prevalence of Omicron they are getting that instead.
Its estimated in the UK that over 80% of the population have now had Omicron and we are 91% double jabbed and 70% triple jabbed.
We have thousands of teachers and healthcare staff off, the NHS are at breaking point, but very few of these Covid patients are more than mildly ill.
One thing that annoys me here is the non availability of separate numbers for Delta 2 and Omicron.

 

Apologies, just spotted some data in your PDF on Omicron verses Delta. Got to eat dinner now, but will have a look at it in the morning here.

 

@557 OK. Read through the rest of it, but no luck.
It does give the breakthrough numbers by Delta and Omicron. But doesn't link them to age/ vaccinated/ unvaccinated.
So still guess work whether its anything to worry about with the vaccines.

BTW. I appreciate you don't think age should matter for obvious reasons. But fact is before Covid came to the UK approx 20,000 elderly people died every year from flu.
This is a natural event due to failing organs, blood condition and immune system that come at end of life. So it does matter when calculating whether Covid 19 is still a threat. And more importantly whether the vaccines are effective.

 

That’s 65% by their website. Google figures based on what they claim is CDC data reports 69%. Sounds lower than what you see across the pond.

After January 2021, the percentage of sequenced cases hovered around the 99.8% to 99.6% Omicron. So anything in the reports from February on would be almost certainly Omicron regardless of age. As far as I know Delta 2 isn’t prevalent here at all. BA.2 Omicron is taking over here. I think over 70% of new cases are BA.2 now.

So just just like here you are starting to care if people are sick and have Covid or are sick from Covid. It’s nice we are starting to care, but changing our tune now corrupts every bit of data from the past. If we actually kept reporting standard the same, comparisons between variants and before and after vaccination can be compared. By changing to differentiation between sick with and because of Covid now, any comparisons are meaningless because past data is massively inflated.

Again, for two years we’ve been told the percentage of aged being the overwhelming majority of fatal and severe cases didn’t matter. Now that current vaccines (not passive ones we are not utilizing) are failing a demographic, it’s fine. They would die anyway. While I agree with you on the facts, I just think the crudity is in switching stances (media, public health, etc., not you personally) on the meaning of old folks being the ones dying before and after vaccines were available. Those stats couldn’t be used to support opening the economy. They couldn’t be used to influence mask policy. But now that it’s a convenient dust bin to deposit breakthrough cases into it's acceptable to say they are folks that would die in a year from something else anyway.

What’s really sickening is the fact there is the belief we can’t do anything to help prevent deaths in vaccinated individuals beyond boosters. This is patently false. We know for a fact prophylactic monoclonal antibodies as a passive vaccine protect better than current vaccines for this demographic. We know 90 minutes of moderate exercise after vaccination improves immunogenicity (antibody production) especially in people over middle age. We know C-reactive blood protein (CRP) concentrations predict infection and severity rates with Covid. We know CRP concentrations increase with age. And chronic dehydration. And BMI. And stress. We know moderate and even light exercise decrease CRP concentrations. We know insoluble dietary fiber greatly reduces CRP. We have empirical data showing actual significantly lower infection and severity rates in people who get moderate exercise and consume an extra serving of plant based food (vegetables). But instead of attempting to use this information to help the demographics dying after being fully vaccinated and even boostered, we can only recommend another booster we know their immune system can’t utilize to its advantage , hospitalize them for a month at high costs, and when they die say they were old and would die anyway and vaccines don’t have a weak spot that needs addressed.

If the vast majority of cases are mildly ill why is NHS at the breaking point?

Do you have any data on vaccinated deaths?

 

Absolutely.. Take up here is much higher.

So that explains the break throughs then.

Very different here. We always cared from the start. And when Covid was at its worst it was not important to consider deaths from Covid and with Covid as the number of deaths was 3 times the norm. It is only as the pandemic has ended that we need to separate the numbers so the public can stop hanging onto it.

Not here, here they always mattered. And in any case IMO there are old and end of life.

Again this is not the case in the UK. I'm pretty sure our NHS did everything they could to save every life possible.

Because we have 16,000 cases of Covid in hospital and 38,000 nurses who are off with Omicron. They aren't ill but are still not allowed to work until they test clear of it.

 

It explains breakthrough infections. It does not explain why a milder variant is resulting in a two fold increase in death rates of vaccinated individuals even with new antiviral drugs.

Specifically, how did reporting of deaths with or from Covid differ in the UK?

So why were you locked down so much if it was just people who would die anyway dying earlier in the pandemic?

Do you have evidence the effects of diet, exercise, hydration, etc. on infection rates and severity of cases was communicated to people in the UK? People there are aware these simple choices are as effective as vaccination in preventing infection and severe disease?

Hopefully they accept this is endemic and nurses are just going to have Covid sometimes going forward. That approach is self defeating. For every hour of sleep the remaining overworked nurses lose, their risk of infection goes up about 12%.

Just out of curiosity why are they hospitalizing mild cases?

Is there any data on deaths in vaccinated demographics from the UK?

 

~ Some may even ponder the possibility that this novel "vaccine " experiment is actually weakening the immune system — or somehow causing more susceptibility to infection .
Only time will tell ... ' '

 

Assuming its the same as the UK what is being measured is people who died while having Covid, rather than of Covid. Then the numbers you are seeing did not die of Covid, they died of a thousand other things while having Covid.
You can do a rough check by comparing morbidity rates from now and 2019.

The "very different here" was a reference to your words "So just just like here you are starting to care ". In the UK it was a constant topic of conversation with many sites comparing overall death rates with pre covid rates. We were very aware that the numbers might be skewed by but considered it unimportant in the middle of a pandemic.

That's not what I said. I said there are old and end of life. We did everything we could in the UK to save the old, no one can save the end of life. Most folks in the UK think we did a pretty good job.
Interestingly our Covid deaths and increased overall morbidity rate matched far better than those of our European partners.
During the pandemic many people thought we were performing badly because our number of Covid deaths were higher than theirs, turns out that we were just better at reporting them.

I don't know how things are where you live, but in the UK we are constantly reminded that exercise and diet are important for health and not just from Covid. Do you think people of America are unaware of this?

I think this is the next big issue, while private industry in the UK has returned to normal, public services are very reluctant to go back.
This is everything from Nurses and teachers to local government, planning, transport etc.
We have stopped giving out free tests, they will now cost 25$ a time, as you might expect the numbers of Covid cases have fallen dramatically. This indicates to me how few of those testing positive and off work even knew they had Omicron.

There has been some increase, quite a few taken into hospital for 24 hours if they are short of breath. My doctor friends say quite a number are panicking and hyperventilating. A night in hospital with some oxygen sat tests and reassurance and they go home.

Not really, same as you. I have to try and build Excel sheets and match data as best you can.

 

It would be the first vaccine that does.

 

~ There are many " first " anomalies with this experiment vaccine ...

​

 

Not sure what you think the differences are here. All these vaccines do the same thing, they all trigger your own immune system to recognise a bacteria or virus. Different methods, same results.

 

~ No they do not .