Coronavirus reveals financial irresponsibility of Americans

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by gorfias, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    In many areas, just the median cost of rent is as much as the yearly income of low-wage workers.

    And righties can't figure out why there are so many homeless people. Yeah, its a real freaking mystery. :rolleyes:
     
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  2. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a mortgage either, and no car loans. In times like these, I am grateful for this. However, I fully realize that I am very fortunate, not many people can afford to pay off the mortgage at the age of 54, as we did. I also realize that if everyone was as frugal as I am, the system wouldn't work. Look up the paradox of thrift, it is an interesting economic concept.
     
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  3. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    A person can only control themselves and nobody else.

    Mama said beware of the Kingston Trio, they were bad people singing that don't give a damn about a greenback dollar.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  4. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are 'Trump voters' who live beyond their means. However, I think the group you were attempting to criticize are Conservatives. And yes, some do live beyond their means. Apparently, the demographics are not limited by age, race, political position, gender or religion. Now that you got your slap shot in, shall we return to the actual subject being discussed?

    Please explain the system being 'stacked against them since Reaganomics', since the monetary pool is infinite, no one can claim a 'larger slice' since the pool is in constant motion. If someone wants more from that constant revenue stream, they need to make themselves worth more.

    While 'trickle up' economics isn't possible without penalizing people, 'trickle down' is actually more effective when it comes to employment and the capability of improving one's position on the revenue stream.

    Once again, when the expenditures exceed the income, it's a spending problem. Those who truly have a valid issue on income, receive assistance of one sort or another. Those are about the only people who can lay claim to living 'paycheck to paycheck', as the truth makes itself very visible for the others.
     
  5. EMTdaniel86

    EMTdaniel86 Well-Known Member

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    they suck at financial management.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  6. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Donor

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    If the government would stick to its business of protecting my rights instead of controlling my money, I wouldn't have to live paycheck to paycheck--Keep the government's fkn thieving hands out of my pockets. I'll do just fine, and I'll decide who is or is not worthy of my money, effort, and time. Thank you very much.
     
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  7. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    purchasing goods does not have to equal debt. There is a large difference.
     
  8. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is a differenced. The problem is, however, without going into debt, the average consumer seems to be unable to maintain their rate of purchasing goods. What do you think will happen to GDP growth if the average consumer reduces their rate of purchasing goods?
     
  9. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    By penalize, I assume you mean reducing savings rates.

    I'm trying to pull up the 10 year treasury note rates, but I seem to have a very slow connection.

    On a more positive note, it's also revealing some quite smashing fashion trends.

    STYLE: The President Of Slovakia Has Nailed Her Coronavirus Look.

    [​IMG]
    Čaputová wore a smashing rosy red boatneck dress with matching red pumps and red fabric mask. Her outfit stood out even more because the rest of the attendees opted for unimaginative standard light blue masks not at all coordinated with their outfits.

    [​IMG]

    I still can't get the 10 year treasury rates up.

    I understand that those that forego consumption in order to have savings would probably like the wisdom of their choice to be more obvious, even though they may also find the suffering of others to be unpleasant. Without the massive liquidity injections that we see in the modern era, savers would be in the least amount of pain in this deflationary environment that we have been in, for a long time.

    One thing that savers have that spenders don't, a nice pile of cash to push in on market bottoms.

    Finally got a 10 year chart up!

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/^TNX/chart?p=^TNX#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

    The yield peaked at 3.21% in Nov of 2018 and has been dropping for over a year. The US had no quarantines until March 19, 2020 and the yield was down to 1.08% on the crude price war between Russia and KSA and it's dropped further, today it's 0.82 bouncing off a bottom of 0.5% bottom on 3/8/20.

    This is just a very tough time to be a saver and it might be several years before inflationary forces again set themselves. The elderly control a lot of wealth and old folks trying to make sure they don't out live their money tend to be very careful spenders. And for them, low interest rates do not stimulate them to spend, it prompts them to tighten up even more. As they pass and their assets transfer to younger folks in a higher consumption phase of their lives this will also likely be accompanied by deflationary forces finally giving way to inflation.

    That information isn't going to help you today. The peak of the Boomers won't be entering their 80's for another 2 decades.

    But, at least 3 months of savings strikes me as very sensible if not the bare minimum.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  10. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    I think I'll have my problems. I just tonight explained to the missus that we are at the very tail end of the baby boomers. We'll get the blame for being in that group, while, like locusts last to get to the eaten out fields, there's going to be precious little left for us when we get there (we were both born after 1960: boomer gen ends at 1964). Example: I think the stock market has been over valued. The Baby Boomers have to put their money somewhere. So, even at inflated prices, they'll put their money there. But when needed? Even if at deflated prices, when they need it (typically before I get to that point) they'll pull it out.

    There's always cat food. Hmmm.
     
  11. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    But, Boomers also tend to be irrepressible optimists, so you probably secretly suspect that everything is going to work out just fine!

    BREAKING: Senate, White House Strike Deal On $2 Trillion Stimulus Spending Bill.

    [​IMG]
    Cocaine Mitch Delivers!

    The agreement capped five straight days of intensive negotiations as the nation’s economy reeled from the deadly pandemic, with schools and businesses closed, mass layoffs and tens of thousands falling ill.

    The legislation, unprecedented in its size and scope, will flood the economy with capital by sending $1,200 checks to many Americans ordered to stay home, creating a $367 billion loan program for small businesses, and setting up a $500 billion fund for industries, cities and states.

    Other provisions include a massive boost to unemployment insurance, $150 billion for state and local stimulus funds and $130 billion for hospitals, among numerous other provisions.

    White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said that the multi-phase stimulus spending bill would total $6 trillion and would be the largest spending bill in history.

    “This package will be the single largest main street assistance program in the history of the United States,” Kudlow said. “The single largest main street assistance program in the history of the United States.”​

    “This legislation is urgently needed to bolster the economy, provide cash injections and liquidity and stabilize financial markets to get us through a difficult period, a difficult and challenging period in the economy facing us right now but also to position us for what I think can be an economic rebound later this year,” Kudlow continued. “Phase two delivered the sick leave for individuals, hourly workers, families and so forth. Phase three, a significant package for small businesses, loan guarantees will be included. We’re going to take out expenses and lost revenues.”​

    “The total package here comes to roughly $6 trillion: $2 trillion direct assistance, roughly $4 trillion in federal reserve lending power,” Kudlow added. “Again, it will be the largest main street financial package in the history of the United States.”​

    The stock market exploded late on Tuesday amid reports that Congress was getting to close to getting a deal done, which comes after Democrat House Speaker Nancy The Ripper ruined a chance for a deal on Sunday.

    “So at a time when the country is crying out for bipartisanship and cooperation — and we saw that over the last 48 hours when regular members of Senate, not in the leadership office, not in the speaker’s office for goodness sakes, she’s the Speaker of the House, not the speaker of the Senate. We don’t have one,” McConnell said on Sunday in a swipe at Pelosi. “We were doing just fine until that intervention.”
    Nobody knows exactly what has happened to Nancy Pelosi's brain. It's hoped that she didn't ingest bad meat during the Mad Cow outbreak a few decades ago. With no 25th Amendment for House Speakers, only the Democrats are able to try to mitigate the damage from her ongoing outbursts.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  12. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    I had not heard this!!! Wow! The amount is larger than previously discussed. It feels different than the 2008 bailout in that, we could still work as normal 12 years ago: we just had no $ so the government infused some into the economy. This time, well. It will help me buy my toilet paper. Scared out of my mind that NOW is the time the boy in construction (HVAC) decides to get his own apartment. He is still working but the local government could order a shutdown anytime. Am I going to find myself paying his rent for at least 1/4 of a year?

    I sort of think things will be fine long term. I write that even I do not expect people that worked their whole lives to die on the streets for lack of funds. Like in "Batman: Dark Knight Rises", in the first world, we are all the rich who do not even go bankrupt like normal people. Is any competent person dying on the streets in Greece for lack of funds? I write of competent people as I work in an area with a lot of homeless and they almost to an individual are seriously mentally ill and/or substance addicted.

    But competent people in my own extended family who were born on 3rd base are reaching retirement age, looking at their own financial situation, and telling me they think they need to come live with me. In response, my wife wrote me an email in all caps, "YOU ARE NOT SINGLE". Meaning, do not dare foist "room mates" on her. It isn't just "my" house.

    So, people in my own circle born on 3rd base are not necessarily ready to provide for themselves for 3 months. "irrepressible optimism" maybe hazardous to one's health.

    I think it was all the way back in the 80s I saw a political cartoon stating we need people to consume, but people are out of money and the government is "borrowing" money just to keep going so what are we going to do. Then it shows a guy at the roulette table saying, "there's always gambling!"
    Thanks, I'd not actually heard that term before. Reviewing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  13. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    When the GDP growth is supported by a majority of debt, it is not a stable growth. Fast grown usually equals unstable growth also.

    That's why GDP without debt, at a slower pace, is better for the economy and society in the long run.
     
  14. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    You should have told this to your friends Bush and Trump.
     
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  15. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Assumptions make you look foolish.
     
  16. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    He's essential services, so long as he is following proper protocols, I'm sure he'll stay busy.
     
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  17. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    She looks lovely although it appears that she would rather have a cloth mask to match her dress and look very chic rather than a surgical mask that would protect her from coronavirus. I've just finished reading about six articles on the different materials that people are using to DIY their own mask. Women are sewing them from cloth - just like the President of Slovakia is wearing but they're very ineffective at blocking a virus. Others have made their masks from materials ranging from pillow cases to coffee filters to vacuum cleaner bags.

    https://hackaday.com/2020/03/18/homemade-masks-in-a-time-of-shortage/
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  18. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    It may not help against the virus but she does look positively smashing!

    BREAKING: Crazy Bernie Sanders Threatens to Hold Up Coronavirus Stimulus Bill Over GOP ‘Anti-Worker Objections.’

    Remember in November that so many leading Democrats put the parochial interests of some of their smallest constituencies ahead of the interest of the nation.

    [​IMG]
    Millionaire Commie with 3 homes including a Lakeside Dacha
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Just a few months back we gave corporations a HUGE tax break.

    Now, they say they need to be hosed down with money just to exist!!

    And, you think the POOR are irresponsible!!


    I listened to the CEO of Ford yesterday. Ford didn't take help after the Bush crash.

    Now, when he saw what was coming he increased Ford's liquidity - to join Apple, Microsoft and others.

    Now, those companies don't need to tap into our taxes


    But, YOU call out those who are living paycheck to paycheck!!!

    As long as we fork tax dollars to the profligate corporations, there really is no reason for them to behave responsibly. Haven't we learned that over and over again?

    I'm really tired of this constant hosing down of corporations that have learned how to suck our tax dollars as a replacement for doing actual business planning.
     
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  20. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am excited for him, just worried too.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Understand. Hopefully he has a mask, gloves, sanitizer and the ability to refuse to service buildings that he thinks may put him at risk. Can't use too much sanitizer on the steering wheel of a work truck, these days.
     
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