Corporate tax rate cut used to buyback stock and layoff workers.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 61falcon, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    A) using a lower tax rate to fire people just doesn't make any sense at all. Using a higher tax rate to fire people does make sense. It's like saying, "I got a bonus so now we have to return the TV"
    B) Why is the unemployment rate so low if everyone is firing their employees?
    C) Buying back their own stock doesn't artificially raise the stock price. It actually does increase the worth of the stock which makes the price go up. This is a little known law called supply and demand.
     
  2. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    Yep. People do it all the time. You should try it.
     
  3. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Par10 When a company BORROWS the money to buy back it's own stock driving up the share price,it has DEVALUED the company which is now in DEBT!!!But it has enriched the company executives who take much of their their salary in company stock.It was illegal for company's to buy back their own shares until the Reagan administration.
     
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  4. Par10

    Par10 Well-Known Member

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    A company's stock is worth what people will pay for it. If a company believes that it's stock is undervalued, I can see where they would borrow money to buy shares back. The value may drop since they now have a larger debt but that would be figured into the equation when the board decides to do the buyback. It all depends on the company and their financial situation. It's not a one size fit's all situation. It does not enrich the company executives until they sell their shares and, if they believe that the stock will become more valuable, they probably won't sell for some time.
     
  5. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Except that CEOs use the stock buybacks to quickly inflate the price of their shares, so they can dump their company stock at elevated price for profit.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/insider-stock-sales-by-company-executives-soar-to-a-record-pace/

    In fact, it would be stupid for a CEO to hold on to too much company stock, since they, like anyone else, need to diversify. It's not good to have all your eggs in one basket, i.e. the company that you run.
     
  6. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What do you have against stock buybacks and unemployment continues at historic lows, wages are rising and even LFPR shows some improvement and manufacturing jobs are doing especially good.
     
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It increases the value of the remaining shares which is good for the shareholders, and that includes all those in the middle class who have 401k's and other retirement plans. And to buy it back they have to buy it from someone who owns it and that person believes they can get better returns somewhere else so they sell and get the money and buy another company they think is going to grow and that helps that company financially and helps create growth and jobs. Some seem to have this kneejerk "stock buybacks bad and a rip off of the taxpayer and middle class and poor so bad company for doing so" mentality when they don't understand it at all.
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Per share value goes up because there are less shares, they do it because it strengthens to companies financial position and puts unused funds to good use.

    Well get rid of the surcharge tax on salaries over a million dollars the Democrats pass years ago so stock options become less a part of total compensation it you don't like 'em.
     
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Gingrich and Kaisch did it and got surpluses. Bush43 did it and got paltry deficits.
     
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    All of which happened prior to the tax cuts. All the tax cuts did, like they always do, is explode the deficit and debt. All economic metrics have been on the same upward unchanging trend since 2010.
     
  11. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    We had a tech boom in the 90’s and a housing boom in the 2,000’s propping up the economy, which increased revenue. Slashing revenue and increasing spending results in higher deficits and debt. Basic math. Happens every time republicans try it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What ever I post to you you will only speciously respond you have already refuted it and then refuse to answer anything I ask of you nor refute anything I post, don't waste my time or others.
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    anti-American mega corps outsourcing jobs overseas, guess they want to see more Detroits in the USA, people need jobs or things get ugly

    they shoudl of raised taxes 10% and offered a 20% tax cut to those that did not outsource American Jobs to places like India, ect....
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I accept your concession. Both of my posts you quoted are demonstrable facts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  15. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    What ever the case..I'm not benefiting from this..But If you voted Trump and are...ROFL, congratulations.

    They did this all for you. Reap the benefits.
     
  16. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    White coller crime is out of the purview of the justice system.
     
  17. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    umm... The last time I went to the store, the guy behind the counter added something called a "sales tax" that added to the price.

    Also, inflation has nothing to do with income. It is particular to fiat currencies where they print more money, thus increasing/inflating the supply of money.

    If you own something that goes up in price because of consumer demand, nobody calls that inflation.
     
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Try demand pull inflation.
     
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  19. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    try explaining what you're on about. See, I think keynesian economics is garbage, so... well there it is.

    I don't buy that garbage, but maybe some others might be interested in what you mean.

    Me? I know better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  20. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    No one cares what you buy.

    Bottom line Trump's taxcut did virtually nothing for anyone not wealthy

    And in millions of cases actually HURT middle class workers
     
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  21. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You need to make up your mind. If the big companies and their executives are making so much money off the employees, then why would they lay them off?
    That would be like killing the golden goose- If it were true.

    I looked up a few details just yesterday regarding one of those complaints that the CEO's make such gross salaries, and that they should be cut so employees could be paid more.

    IF Walmart's CEO was paid nothing at all and his salary divided equally between all employees, their annual income would rise- by $9.91, or the same amount as if they worked an extra 41 minutes each year.
    At the same time, by eliminating the job of the person who is basically the equivalent of the navigator of the ship.... you can expect that the ship will soon be lost.

    It's a value question. What's more important- guiding the ship safely into the future, or getting the $9.91 bonus today???

    All employers have been employees; they know the pro's and con's of the position. How many employees have been business owners, or CEO's? The number is tiny, just as the perspective of the relationship in their minds is- they have no idea what is involved or how to do it, but are absolutely convinced they know all about it. While that kind of criticism is everywhere- you never see any questions of ideas from them about how they might make themselves more value able and thereby raise their income. It's never about what they are actually worth or produce, just what they think they should be entitled to.
     
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Demand pull isnt really reliant on Keynesianism. Also Keynesianism has different approaches to inflation. Post-Keynesianism focuses on cost-plus pricing and therefore shares ground with Marxists (who argue that worker militancy creates inflation, given their ability to increase their income increases costs which are then passed on to the consumer).

    The lesson is straightforward. Anyone suggesting a single inflationary theory is selling snakeoil.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No concession just no point in trying to have a discussion with you since all you do is claim you have already rebutted anything posted to you and then refuse to answer questions asked. Your post are a waste if time and space.
     
  24. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    "Unused funds"? Are you referring to the tax-cut windfall? The one that COULD have been used to innovate? Buy capital equipment? Hire more workers? Give workers a raise?

    No, it went to 90% to stock buybacks, as predicted. That's extractive capitalism instead of productive capitalism. It extracts current value by manipulating stock price, instead of creating new value. Nobody benefits from this, except the ones extracting the value, i.e. the CEOs, upper management and stock holders.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
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  25. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    I accept your concession.
     

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