COVID 19 fatality misattribution

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html

At Tuesday's White House coronavirus press conference, task force member Dr. Deborah Birx said that while some countries are reporting coronavirus fatality numbers differently, in the U.S. you are counted as a victim of the pandemic if you die while testing positive for the virus, even if something else causes your death.

: DR. DEBORAH BIRX: So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.​

Dr. Birx's phraseology is, perhaps conveniently, not perfectly clear, but surely the emphasized language will set off an alarm bell or two.

Now if you wonder if this means someone who gets stabbed to death and tests positive for COVID 19 will get written up as a victim of the virus rather than the assailant, I have it on good authority - specifically that of Dr. Kelly Victory, a frequent guest on KABC in LA - that that's an affirmative; and that furthermore, a positive test isn't even required if the deceased exhibited COVID 19-like symptoms.

So I'm curious if anyone here will defend this bureaucrat's glaring intent to manipulate the American public.

 

People don't die from Corona, they die from Corona related illness like pneumonia. Corona damages the lungs and makes other diseases more likely to occur. It would be like saying a person dies from AIDS when they caught the common cold and died from that.

 

If you're asking who the dissenting physicians are, per the OP, Dr. Kelly Victory is one. I'd count Dr. Erik Wattenburg from central Oregon as another, as he points out that the mortality rate is not as indicative of reality as the deaths to hospitalizations ratio, as we have a verifiable denominator for the latter.

 

I think that has been wrongly transcribed (and I'm not sure it was unintentional). It seems fairly clear from context that she said "mark it" rather than "market".

Formally recording cause of death has always been a complex issue, with also sorts of different underlying factors which could be considered in any given case, limited scope to accurately record all the facts within the systems and structures in place and the fact that it falls down to a personal conclusion by the medical staff involved.

Notwithstanding what was said in that political press conference, I'm not convinced someone who happens to have COVID-19 and is stabbed to death would be recorded in the COVID-19 statistics and I'd need to hear evidence from people directly involved in recording and compiling those statistics to accept a definitive answer either way.

 

Why in hell would you test a stabbing victim for cv-19? I think your straining to make the statistics fit your political bent.

 

I'd suggest that covid-19 deaths should be attributed to their real cause, the heart stopping to beat. That way, Trump can boast about a 0% covid death rate and his re-election success will assured.

 

Thread win!

 

That COVID19 misattribution is a fact, it is an irrefutable fact, no matter how much the self-interested, TDS infected parasites of the gov-edu-union-contractor-grantee-trial lawyers-MSM Complex howl to the contrary.

1. Misattribution is a result of CDC WRITTEN POLICY I have posted many times to this forum and won't do so again... because LW IGNORE IT every time it is posted. Doctors have been INSTRUCTED and ENCOURAGED to count ANY deaths that are merely SUSPECTED as being RELATED to COVID19. That is a fact, that is SCIENTIFICALLY BOGUS, ALSO a FACT, and that alone dictates that MASSIVE overcounting is a reality.

2. ORANGEMANBAD. For three years we have experienced an unprecedented tendency of ideologues to LIE, to act out VIOLENTLY, due to Trump Derangement Syndrome. The entire of MSM, for example is 90% comprised of total ORANGEMANBAD. Is it any wonder in a country in which 10s of millions are infected by TDS that ANY disruption, economic damage, increase of fear is warranted to attack ORANGEMANBAD? Overcounting COVID19 is just another phase of the "Resistance" when Trump had the bad sense to defeat HRC when it was "her turn." COVID overcounting is just the latest stage of government wiretapping and other unlawful spying, fake Muhrussia, fake Ukraine impeachment, and mountains of other FAKE NEWS and lies directed at the Trump Administration.

 

Not quite. Pneumonia is very very rarely found in both lungs. Actually COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells.

People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia.

All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs.

Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four “hemes”. Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it’s ‘container’. In this way, the iron ion can be ‘caged’ and carried around safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.

When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.

Here’s an excellent read on the subject.
https://bluntforcetruth.com/news/co...t-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret/

 

I bet the common cold would have killed NY patient #1. An 82 yo with emphysema? Cause of death was Coronavirus? I’m no doctor but I’m leaning more towards the 50 years of smoking was the cause of death.

An 82-year-old New York City woman with emphysema died after contracting COVID-19, becoming the first known death in the state tied to the coronavirus, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Saturday morning.

 

Well, if you read the death certificates of all the deceased you will most likely see that COVID-19 is not the cause of death. Most causes of death for people infected with COVID-19 will be organ failure. Read that link I posted 2 replies ago.

 

Well, whoever wrote this article definitely wasn't a chemist, probably not even a scientist.
1) It is O2, not o2
2) It is Fe3+, not FE3+
3) Fe2+ is a reducing agent, not an oxidizing agent.

But, what else do you expect from RW crackpot websites that play loose with the facts? Their only aim is to make Trump look good, and they need to dress it up with some pseudo science.

 

Really? Typos? F nuff said. ROFL

 

Other doctors are coming to similar conclusions(though not using this scientific terminology). Ventilators aren't helping to treat the patients and it doesn't appear to be a SARS-infection, though it affects the lungs.

 

So what you're saying is... people don't die from the disease, they die from complications that arise from the disease like a lack of oxygen?

 

If someone dies of conditions caused by a Covid-19 infection, Covid-19 is in fact on the death certificate - as the underlying cause of death. Above this, the death certificate will show the condition(s) triggered by Covid-19, listed in logical sequence to the point of death.

For example:

Line 1: Acute respiratory distress syndrome
Line 2: Pneumonia
Line 3: Covid-19

As you say, many people with Covid-19 die of organ failure. As you may know, this is caused by sepsis, which in turn is caused by Covid-19. In this case, the death certificate would show:

Line 1: Sepsis
Line 2: Covid-19

Again, these sequences must be logical, and clinically sound.

This is one reason why the OP's assertions are unfounded. If someone "dies of something else", it isn't possible to put Covid-19 as the cause of death because the death certificate must specify - in a logical sequence - exactly how Covid-19 led to death.

For obvious reasons, it wouldn't be possible to show - in a logical sequence - how Covid-19 caused someone to die from a stabbing. Not to mention the fact that death certificates must specify the actual cause of death.

 

You’re definitely entitled to your opinion and when 3 slight grammar mistakes from a 2000 word internet post is what you base your opinion on than that’s lacking substance. Here’s what a double board certified surgeon said about this article.

“Excellent read!! I have been scouring web for appropriate vent protocols

This makes perfect sense

I actually did research in college on porphoryn rings !”

Now, how do I know this? Because she’s my daughter-in-law with degrees from Univ of TX, UCLA and Northwestern. What are your credentials?

 

Above hokum is dealt with convincingly by 1) the contradictory CDC data I have linked several times and won't do again because LW IGNORE it every time. 2) The videos of the two doctors in my earlier post that LW ALSO ignore every single time.

 

What I'm missing is how "a form that has the ability to [mark it] as COVID-19" qualifies as a "great thing".

Taking their word as gospel would surely be a questionable practice even if no dissenting view is available, which is not the case here.

Why in hell wouldn't you?

Thanks for nothing.

lol

Actually it's your claim that's unfounded, as you provide nothing beyond superficially authoritative assurances that the statistics being presented result from such a rigorous process as you'd have us believe.

Be that as it may, this

Don’t trust China. China is ASSHOE.​

hardly inspires confidence.

 

Not to mention the LW ignores the fact that Coronavirus is far more widespread with far more asymptomatic and immunity than once thought. And this is a study from a liberal school written by a liberal reporter in a liberal media source.
Coronavirus: Santa Clara County has had 50 to 85 times more cases than we knew about, Stanford estimates

• Lisa M. Krieger
• PUBLISHED: April 17, 2020 at 12:48 p.m. | UPDATED: April 17, 2020 at 6:24 p.m.
  
  In a startling finding, new Stanford research reveals between 48,000 and 81,000 people in Santa Clara County alone may already have been infected by the coronavirus by early April — that’s 50 to 85 times more than the number of official cases at that date.
  
  The estimate comes from a first-in-the-nation community study of newly available antibody tests that suggest how widespread the invisible — and perhaps benign — companion has been in the Bay Area’s hardest-hit county. Not only do the numbers show how the U.S.’s severe shortage of testing led to a profound undercount of COVID-19 cases, they indicate the virus is far less deadly than believed.
  
  
  

 

There is no contradictory CDC data, and actual real-life CDC death certification requirements, as well as Council for State and Territorial Epidemiologists (CSTE) reporting guidelines - because that's what actually applies here - are determining how deaths are actually counted, and plainly refute your assertions.

So too do they refute your doctors, neither of which, I note, referred to the actual source guidance (as above) but rather to second-hand local items (which would undoubtedly have referred recipients to the source guidance) - and there's a good reason they didn't refer to it. It doesn't suit their narratives.

And by the way, a doctor who believes that it's a sinister plan for government overreach, and another who's reputation precedes her, are hardly the most credible of references, which doesn't say much for the validity of your case.

If however you prefer to be informed via a filter of conspiracy theorists, outwith the bounds of reality, that's fine, but it means you are not in a position to claim it is "dealt with convincingly".

 

Where in the hell did you get that I posted anything about China much less trusting China? I trust my daughter-in-law. Here’s what I posted.

My daughter-in-law did research of porphoryn rings during her vascular studies at Northwestern University in Chicago. I believe her, not China, not you and certainly not Quantum Nerd. She went to med school and interned for 13 years.

 

I am going to stop at the first sentence because THAT is crap! In fact unilateral pneumonia is rarer than bilateral

Radiological evidence of covid 19

https://radiopaedia.org/articles/covid-19-3?lang=gb



COVID 19 CT scan. The areas within the circles are the early manifestations



Disease progression

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-020-02880-z

Do me a favour. Go to that website you quoted and tell the TWONK in charge to stop endangering lives by spreading horse manure all over the net

 

You didn't. That was a C&P from the article you linked to, near the end.

 

Here's a review page which finds that the article is deeply flawed, rating the author's claims "unsupported and implausible":
https://healthfeedback.org/claimrev...unsupported-and-implausible-andrew-gaiziunas/