COVID-19 Research, Drug trials and Pathophysiology

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Bowerbird, Apr 13, 2020.

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  1. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    The media overhyped what Trump said. Trump never called it a miracle cure or even cure. Trump called it a "game changer", which it probably isn't but that's a FAR cry from miracle cure or cure, or 'Trump Medicine'. It's an approach that might work for some, doesn't work for most and so it should still be on the table in a limited capacity.

    Meanwhile, remedisivir has shown to be possibly effective, and if I had COVID-19 I would be open to that. I'd be open to any of the 20 medications being tested and I don't see them as "Trump pills". I see them as medicine.

    All I'm saying is that it's not the place for Trump, media or pundits. It's for Doctors and Patients, it's a special and private relationship that Dems used to prioritize and protect. Try keeping that protection up, even if it means getting rid of a talking point on Trump.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like you would not promote the use of whatever treatment the president promotes. That's certainly sane. Having Trump try to sell Trump Medicine is a detriment to America's health, especially in that he shows NO interest in being informed by those in any field of endeavor.

    Doctors DO carefully examine the methodology behind studies being done - as well as watching the treatment methods being used for COVID patients in hospitals across the US and beyond. That includes aspects what aren't likely to be studied before practiced - for example, whether patients do better on theor stomachs, due to lungs being weighted down by other organs when on your back.

    The peer review system involves experts examining studies to determine if their methodology is valid, to check against similar studies to find confirmations or falsifications, etc. I do not believe that an American with average education would be able to form a better opinion of a study or correctly determine if the study applies to their health situation.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Could not have said that better given there are multiple medications showing better outcomes
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Trump sold his prescription for COVID repeatedly on live news broadcast throughout the nation.

    You can't get away with blaming that on the press.

    Your last paragraph misses the issue of Trump Medicine. Those other solutions are coming from medical science, not Trump.

    When Trump anounces a solution, it sells the idea that we're at less risk - because we have a solution.

    That changes how people accept issues like what is required before we open the economy, how seriously to take social distancing and other policy, etc. - policy which is our only way of keeping COVID from flooding our hospitals.
     
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  5. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    BS, The truth is, whether Trump said something or not, the way we've had to live post-COVID19 isn't what our norms are as a nation. Despite our political disagreements, I think we can both acknowledge that we're in a "new normal". And it's not a normal people want to get used to.

    So, people are going to 'rebel' against this. They don't want to live this way, even if it means they might die. Before it became "Trump Medicine", the medical community was looking at it. Same with Remidisivir, which actually didn't past the muster in previous attempts.

    And yes, we've done all this to keep it from flooding our hospitals. I hope that proves to be worth it in the long run.
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You didn't counter anything I said. You just called it BS and switched subjects.

    So as for norms, having our federal government enourage what you call "rebellion" (though most call it protest) is not a valid way for government to proceed. Government needs to identify issues and then address those issues - not call for a protest movement.

    Having medical science invesigate a few dozen possibilities for addressing COVID is NOT a justification for Trump saying that we have a solution to COVID - for reasons I pointed out.

    We are still seeing hospitals flooded.

    Many places have ended all elective surgery - such as for hip replacements and other maladies that are very painful. We've seen delays in treatments and diagnosis for cancer. When you call your doctor today, your doctor has to decide whether you can RISK going to a hospital. Your doctor has to make the call on whether your chances for survivall are better if you just stay home with no treatment rather than going to a hospital.

    Today, 10% to 20% of COVID deaths are coming from our medical staff - they are giving their LIVES to treat people. Given that, risking more of the same (while we FAIL to even supply adequate PPE) is a humanitarian crime if you ask me. How can we suggest that it's OK for us to ignore social policy when we have these people's very lives in the balance? Our total hosptibal bed count was about 75% full BEFORE COVID. Where are those patiets now as hospitals are full of COVID patients which must be kept separate from everyone else?

    Boohoo if you have to stay indoors for a while longer. Allowing COVID to rampage is a crime against our medical staff and all those who need our hospitals - not just COVID wards.

    We have been in serious need of federal level leadership that pulls America together behind solving this problem.
     
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  7. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    Trump's malaria drug is a flop.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tru...ns-drug-hes-touted-performs/story?id=70285600

     
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  8. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    *EDITED to add the what trump said hyperlink; I forgot to add the link the first time*

    And now we can have yet another thread where you and others make unsubstantiated, untrue, statements about the President.

    What Trump said was that hydroxychloroquine had shown, "very encouraging early results". He didn't say silver bullet and he didn't just mention one particular compound; he mentioned, in that first statement, three compounds and a blood plasma therapy. Since then he has also mentioned other therapies.

    From the article linked above: He also mentioned two other drugs, Gilead’s Remdesivir and Regeneron’s Kevzar, that may prove to be effective against the coronavirus.

    Interestingly, the press never attacked him for the two trade-named drugs because those are owned by their big pharma advertisers. Their concern was the one that big pharma can't get rich on... And their blind followers, here and around the world, are the ones who only seem to focus on a single compound; Trump mentioned three.

    ABC News posted online an article from AP that showed clearly that mocking the President was their number one goal. In their opening paragraph, they took various phrases, including, "Could be a game changer," out of context. Later, though, they did show the context for this one: “I think it could be a game changer, and maybe not,” Trump said, discussing the drug.

    He made no false claims. You, others on the left, and the main-stream media are the ones making the false claims.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  9. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Game changer... or maybe not. That's what he said.
     
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  10. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You made it up. Never did Trump say we have a solution for COVID. You can't find a single quote from the President where he ever insinuated such a thing. There's a word for making things up and presenting them as the truth but I've been told forum rules forbid me from saying it.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Even if true, that wouldn't change the central issue here.

    He's repeatedly downplaying what medical science says about what we need to be doing.

    And, he's calling on citizens to protest against governors who are followig medical advice.

    That is a serious problem in every way that I mentioned.

    Plus, we still have serious problems with PPE and testing - what medial science and business executives say are necessary for reopening our economy. Trump has repeatedly stated we're on top of both those issues when we definitely are NOT. Plus, there is no evidence of Trump even halting FEMA's interdiction of deliveries of PPE and other material being shipped to healthcare facilities that have purchased them.

    Our healthcare sysem is struggling - not only is it overloaded with COVID, but the number of cases has made it dangerous for many to go to the hospital for needed examination and treatment for many unrelated reasons.

    Yet, Trump calls for protest (!!!). When has the US EVER had a president fomenting a protest movement against governors?
     
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  12. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is so friggin' typical in these threads.. I, and others, kick your intellectual asses and you respond with, "Yeah, but sky isn't really blue, it's purple paisley." In other words, you change the topic and just come back with a different ...dangit.. out of respect for the rules, let's say, inaccurate statement.
     
  13. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's so funny how the left suddenly supports the use of non-random, non-blind, non-peer-reviewed, studies if one makes a claim that Orange Man Bad.

    Not to mention, this study was of patients across several Veterans' Hospitals... you know.. the place where veterans go to die waiting in lines? The hospitals where staffs have publicly expressed their hate for Trump because he calls them out for letting veterans die? The hospitals where tradition and policy has been to have the pictures of EVERY president but they refused to display the picture of President Trump... Yes, those hospitals.. they released an unreviewed study that shows Orange Man Bad. Got it.
     
  14. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    What took you so long?
     
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  15. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    Have a read.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...jVXrdeaLJfZu9eG9L7-kAp2tBxfUeBvLPiahesT7fSYPM

     
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  16. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    My turn......his big mouth hurt him AGAIN!

     
  17. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    An unwise President, and poor leadership approach.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is NO QUESTION that he promoted Chloroquine/Hydrochloroquine.

    He said "there are very strong, very powerful signs.

    He said “If it does work, it would be a shame we did not do it early.”

    He said he had purchased and stockpiled 29 million pills of the drug. and stated that “we are sending them to various labs, our military, we’re sending them to the hospitals.

    Related to his own qualifications, he said, "what do you have to lose?"

    When Dr. Fauci was asked what HE thinks of those compounds, Trump stepped in front of him and refused to allow Dr. Fauci to answer. If Trump weren't promoting this drug, why would he be opposed to medical truth coming out?

    Trump has a pattern of dropping in little caveats that he subsequently uses to deny his statements are false. But, the thing is, he overtly promoted the Chloroquine products. Nobody is going to listen to his mild claims of not being a medical expert when he spends his time promoting Chloroquine in the way he does.

    And, that DOES affect how US citizens view the medical approach advocated by experts - something that is further eroded by Trump's promotion of protests, statement that masks are important, but that he wont use onw(!!), statements that FEMA is sending PPE to hospitals (when the head of FEMA says they aren't), his bragging about signing the Defense Production Act, and then the next day tweeting that he won't use it, statements that we have plenty of tests when we absolutely do not (he said it after WA got a dlivery of tests that clearly did not work, and our test production has not been increasing as of last week).

    There is no end to the ways Trump undermines medical science in America.
     
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  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You're accusing VA hospitals of allowing (or even causing) their patients to die just because Trump is not supporting our VA. That is a vile and totally unsupportable bit of political BS.

    Plus, this is not the only study of Chloroquine products. The one in Brazil was halted, because patients were dying of the known side effects of these products - like what the VA reports.

    Right now, we've relaxed requirements for studies of treatments for COVID in humans.

    With the info we have now, I doubt an application for a study of Chloroquite for COVID in humans would even be granted during normal conditions.
     
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  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I did not change the topic AT ALL. I simply pointed out that your issue with what I said is totally meaningless.

    And, Trump DID promote Chloroquine, as I pointed out above.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Why was Dr. Rick Bright, the director of the agency working to create a COVID19 vaccine, fired?

    Was it because he strongly pushed back against Trump's promotion of hydrochloroquine?

    He's hiring investigators to find out why he was fired.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattpe...ticism-about-hydroxychloroquine/#567aa2315377

    Are we all aware that Trump has a major donor who owns a major percent of the French company that makes hydrochloroquine?
     
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  22. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How's that? He didn't have a big mouth; he was doing what presidents are supposed to do Help the nation.
     
  23. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The facts aren't out yet. It will be proven that he supported the use of hydroxychloroquine and that there are records that the process to get rid of him predated the virus. Wait a few days and see what comes out.
     
  24. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't accuse the VA of allowing death because they hate Trump. But I'm open to the possibility that the numbers are not accurate because, 1. they're incompetent, 2. they hate Trump.

    Until the numbers are independently reviewed, both for accuracy and completeness, they're suspect: they're from the VA; not a reliable source.

    And there are already approved trials going for hydroxychloroquine.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/minnesota-doctor-engaged-fda-approved-hydroxychloroquine-trials-lacks/story?id=69793007

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/swiss-pharm-co-wins-fda-approval-start-hydroxychloroquine-clinical-trials-u-s/


    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/novartis-initiate-hydroxychloroquine-study-coronavirus-153503577.html
     
  25. Levant

    Levant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, you did change the topic - COMPLETELY (matching your emphasis).

    The topic at hand is drugs for the Wuhan virus - stretched a bit from the original intent of being just about research, studies, and pathophysiology of those drugs.

    But, with your "even if true" statement, you effectively admitted you were wrong when you claimed that Trump said hydroxychloroquine was a silver bullet. You admitted I was right when I proved that he touted multiple drugs but hydroxychloroquine is the only one not making big-pharma rich. You admitted that you and the left are the ones making false claims.

    From there you claimed that the central point was protests, PPE, testing, and opening the economy.. You just proved that all your hype is purely about the politics of hurt Trump at all costs. YOu should read the title of the thread: COVID-19 Research, Drug trials and Pathophysiology.

    It's OK; I'm happy to discuss any of those accusations. But those were not the topic; I had proven your claims about what Trump said wrong and you changed the subject: "The sky is not blue; it's purple paisley," is, in effect, what you said. In other words, you changed the subject and you were no more accurate in your new subject as you were in the topic from which you were running.
     

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