COVID-19 Research, Drug trials and Pathophysiology

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Bowerbird, Apr 13, 2020.

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  1. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    I know you hate quoting what was actually said ruins you drug agenda, not sorry.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    He didn't just say there is a lot in stock.

    He said he was delivering millions to hospitals, and made other statements as I posted that you may look up anywhere you want.

    There are NOT billios in stock. In fact, those for whom this drug is prescripted (such as for Lupus) have had a hard time getting it. Trump's promotion of this drug has harmed them.

    The drug is NOT safe as stated by the FDA and reported by the Surgeon General. It has negative impacts on the heart and other organs. Lupus patients are under a doctor's care who prescribe this drug in quantities that are tested and while screening for risk and monitoring other impact.

    What you have to lose is your LIFE. And, Trump knows absolutely NOTHING about medicie and has NO business promoting the use of a particular drug that has not been tested for this use.
     
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  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was irritated by Trump and French people when they started saying this was the ideal medicine. Irritated because I knew it was what South Korea and China had been using and was believed by the man whose videos I will put in in a moment to have had a positive effect and helped to limit deaths.

    I was more surprised when I started hearing how it did not work and even worse how dangerous it is for people.

    This guy, Dr Chris Martenson who has a PHD in Pathology so Dr due to PHD believes their is something fishy going on.

    In this video he looks for information that does suggest that they are a danger and does not find it.

    around 11mins



    and in this video he goes into the ins and outs of what is necessary for it to be effective, for instance using Zinc.




    If my memory serves me well he was not the only one suggesting we needed this med for Covid-19 as well as linking it to Zinc - I think one of the benefits of this is that it activates zinc which then can fight the virus. The other was a medical Dr, currently working with Covid-19 patients who has been doing a strongly medical blog while this has been going on. Anyway there appear to be many things left out when people are doing tests. They are not including both Hydroxychloroquine and another drug which my memory has forgotten but which begins with A and he speaks about a lot in the second video above. Both of the substances if I remember need to be taken together for positive results and they do not even mention Zinc as you will see if you look. In other words he is suggesting people are not trying to use it in the way which has been shown to be effective and has not been able to find evidence of for the claims being made against it.

    I think this is your line of work ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It appears to me that he hasn't done more than to suggest there should be an actual scientific test. And, that is what was done!

    But, the actual scientific tests aren't going well at all. Brazil killed there test, because people were dying. The VA test has shown problems. The latest report are showing more problems than just heart attacks + no succes.

    In medicine, this is almost always the way it works, by the way. The rate of success of candidates that look really promising is not high.


    And, I am REALLY tired of having a president who thinks he knows medicine. And , that was way before he made an utter and total FOOL of himself in his latest briefing promoting light and household cleaning products.
     
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  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No that was not what he said. Please watch the videos. He illustrated that supposed research has been presented to suggest HCQ is both useless and dangerous and that this has been widely presented to the public. He shows how this does not stand up to scientific research standards and does not even follow known information in this area. He is scratching his head wondering if this is deliberate. and yes he does suggest that before giving all this wrong information to the public proper research ought to be done other wise this could cost lives. He also points out that research which stands up to expected scrutiny is being done on the R drug (which if my memory serves me well was not found to suitable in China, either due to not working or due to the extend of negative consequences) That is where your belief that all he was asking for was research comers in. He questions why such proper research is not being done on HCQ when the West is capable of doing it on this other drug.

    However that was just his conclusion. His main point was that wrong information has been presented to the public and to doctors on HCQ. This goes along with other wrong information being presented. The Stanford Study on those with antibodies is now pretty solidly being acknowledged as not being acceptable research and even the NYC one was not looking at like for like in people taking from this that it was determining that the antibodies suggest that covid-19 is no worse that flue. In that they were conflicting CFR and IFR. There is a lot of wrong information being presented to the public. That is what he was illustrating. That was his point.
     
  6. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    GOOD THREAD!! Worth contributing.
     
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  7. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you wholeheartedly, which is why reading what actual peers who do this stuff as their life's work is worth doing.

    Let's take Hydroxychloroquine as an example.

    I am not a doctor, I don't deal in medicines, but I have a good brain. So, I read as much as I can from as many reputable sources as I can.

    I read that some tests show good results. Wonderful, I think.

    Other peers say, however, that the testing itself does not meet the best standards (not double-blind, the testing group was not random). Ok, I ingest that piece of data as well.

    Others say, ok, it seems to work well with Azithromycin (the combination now being called Z-pac). I injest that data point as well, realizing, however, that Azithromycin belongs to the penicillin family and people who are deadly allergic to penicillin (as is my case) are, logically, automatically excluded from trying Zpac. However, I am open to the possibility that it may really help. That's good news.

    I read that other studies show that HCQ is not really working like it should and may even be causing deaths? Ok, I injest that data point as well.

    Others say that instead of Zpac, try it simply with zinc, that they have seen promising results. Ok, I injest that data point as well.

    I read that the VA has had real problems with HCQ. That's an unhappy data point.

    But I read that it really does appear to help in cases that have just started, especially with younger people who have more robust constitutions. That's a happy data point.

    My point is:

    weigh the number of quality studies that say something is working well against the number of quality studies that say "wait, there is a problem, here" because, actually, both could be right to a certain degree.

    If, however, after a certain amount of time, 90% of quality studies say "nope, not working the way we hoped", then I am going to trust that 90%, because we are talking about a large number of groups of scientists and medical researchers who operate completely independent of each other and have no vested interest in either hurting or helping each other. What they want are verifiable facts. And that's what we all should want, too.

    And I myself am going to leave the interpretation to those who actually know this stuff. There are alot of things where I am really fit. This is not one of them. The medical field is not my field. Therefore, I defer to the advice and caution of those who really do know what they are doing. In doing so, I am education myself and learing more and more how much I really don't know, which makes me more humble and hungry to learn more. Upward spiral, worth climbing.

    Now, every member who reads this posting of mine should thank it, because it really supports the idea of the OP - to simply lay the data out there. I'm not interested in hearing someone breathlessly race into an interview studio for CNN or FOX or whothe**** ever to try to spin this stuff. I simply want the world to find a cure as quickly as possible, because that will save lives.

    @Bowerbird has done PF a huge favor by opening this thread. Regardless whether you love or hate his politics, people should be thankful to have this info quick at hand.

    My two cents.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
  8. BaghdadBob

    BaghdadBob Well-Known Member

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    PRESIDENT TRUMP is ahead of the curve once again. Here's another treatment that the left can hate on as evidenced below!

    Aytu BioScience Signs Exclusive Global License with Cedars-Sinai for Potential Coronavirus Treatment

    April 20, 2020

    The Healight technology employs proprietary methods of administering intermittent ultraviolet (UV) A light via a novel endotracheal medical device. Pre-clinical findings indicate the technology’s significant impact on eradicating a wide range of viruses and bacteria, inclusive of coronavirus. The data have been the basis of discussions with the FDA for a near-term path to enable human use for the potential treatment of coronavirus in intubated patients in the intensive care unit (ICU). Beyond the initial pursuit of a coronavirus ICU indication, additional data suggest broader clinical applications for the technology across a range of viral and bacterial pathogens. This includes bacteria implicated in ventilator associated pneumonia (VAP).
    https://apnews.com/b44f4531071e6204023f7b8e16f59d4b


    Youtube - keeping people ignorant & letting them die for the leftist cause...

    uvlight.jpg
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Alexa but not rely on videos

    I have been reading and critiquing drug trials and research most of my working life so I tend to go first to what is called “Evidence Based Practice”
     
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  10. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    This does not look like a peer review.

    But think of all those people who can now either sunburn the insides of their lungs or asses.

    Wow. MAGA wow.

    When a peer review comes out, I'll read it.
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And it is theoretical in vitro study (theoretical lab tested only) which has not been been trialled in vivo (on any humans yet)
     
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  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  13. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    First off increased blood flow automatically means that there would be more immune response available in the lungs since all blood has to flow through there in order to exchange gases.

    Secondly the virus causes Hypoxia and even just deep breathing is going to counteract that condition by exposing more of the lungs to oxygen. The exercise helps because it increases the blood flow thereby increasing the gas exchange.

    Our bodies "burn" calories and in order to "burn" they need oxygen just as much as they need the calories. The symptom of decreased appetite is the sign of the lack of oxygen to "burn" those calories in the most simple of terms.

    The vulnerable and the elderly are those least likely to be engaging in strenuous exercise.
     
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  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Actually what we are seeing in early COVID cases is what is called a V/Q mismatch. The blood supply and the working air sacs do not match. Later it becomes ARDS Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome

    COVID 19 pneumonia
    upload_2020-4-27_1-6-3.jpeg

    Lungs should look dark grey to black on x-ray
     
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  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Good post. The more time marches on, the more we understand that the story told at the beginning has not materialized. Common Sense begins to eclipse the hugely inaccurate predictions of "the experts", as I know way more people who had it and survived than I know people who died from it. The latter number is -0-, but that doesn't mean I don't understand that for people with poor immune systems it is a terrible infection and that some will die.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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  17. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Wait, wutt. Exactly which predictions do you mean?
     
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  18. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that’s accurate. One of the main points of my post dealt with the open window hypothesis where there are decreased levels of lymphocytes in the blood post exercise. Until recently it was thought there was increased risk of respiratory infection after exercise when this reduction was observed. I guess you weren’t aware of this and didn’t read my links. :)

    Didn’t you start breathing exercises early on in this pandemic? I seem to recall you mentioning it. Certainly a good idea.

    Actually glycolysis can be anaerobic so energy in the form of ATP is produced without oxygen. Oxygen is required later in the mitochondria for the Krebs cycle. This can be observed by intense exercise leading to glycolysis outrunning the Krebs cycle because of inadequate oxygen. It becomes obvious to you when pyruvate is converted to lactate instead of being utilized in aerobic respiration in the Krebs cycle. It causes the burning sensation in active muscles and creates a negative feedback loop leading to inefficiency of further glycolysis until pyruvate can be utilized again.

    Actually the entire process of hypoxia induced weight loss and reduced caloric intake isn’t completely understood. It involves everything from changes in ability to taste to insulin sensitivity. Studies have been complicated because previous acclamations to hypoxia, adipose tissue variations, and other metrics aren’t understood well enough to implement well designed studies.
    Absolutely. That’s why I hope they take the best advice science has to offer at this point and do the exercises they can. It doesn’t have to be strenuous as you would have known if you had read the provided links. :)
     
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  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe your doctor is failing to do this or isn't as qualified as are you in makig this assessment as it should apply to you as an individual patient?

    This issue is what doctors are trained to address. Being ones own advocate is good, but I would suggest asking questions and possibly asking for a second opinion as being important.
     
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  20. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    That looks serious! I recall one specialist remarking that with Pneumonia it is usually only one lung whereas with Covid it appears to attack both lungs simultaneously.

    What I have not seen yet are any instances of this lung damage being repaired after recovery but that could take a long time and we are still very much in the early stages.
     
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  21. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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  22. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    I will admit to scanning your links rather than reading them in detail, a bad habit of mine! ;)

    Thanks for the detail on the anaerobic aspect of "burning" calories. I do need to look further int that. I will admit to being a layman in this regard but I do find it fascinating.

    Yes, I was doing the deep breathing exercises and I believe that I contracted a mild form of Covid19 and the deep breathing did alleviate the sensation of tightness in my chest each time it occurred. Since I never had a fever I wasn't tested but I do intend to take an antibody test as soon as there are FDA approved ones available in my area.

    There is probably way more that we do not know at this stage than is known and I am hoping with this level of interest at all levels that we will obtain a better understanding and potentially better methods of diagnosis and treatment.

    Speaking for myself I would like to see more programs that encourage exercise for the elderly. I appreciate that for many conditions like arthritis or back injuries are limitations but deep breathing alone can be beneficial.

    On the Tracking thread @gnoib mentioned a large group of mountain bikers without masks hugging and shaking hands before setting off. That type of biking is strenuous exercise and it made me wonder if there were asymptomatic carriers in the crowd and they infected others would that level of exercise result in higher viral loads and/or would the increased immune response counteract that exposure? Too bad that we could not use them as a study group.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
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  23. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Being an informed patient and having a doctor that is willing to work WITH you on any health issues makes for a great partnership and improved outcomes IMO.
     
  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is safe enough that it is prescribed to pregnant women. Doctors swear by it. The media and dems vilify it. Even worse, it is cheap and plentiful. Can’t have that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  25. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if this has been posted here before now but I found it to be written in terms that a layman like myself could understand.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...3qo2UG8WmxoXJP2pVhTBpxKhwyis-Q0SL4BkJ4UZa7xi8

    From what I have gathered the virus attacks every organ that has ACE2 receptors and since they are common to most organs that explains the wide disparity of symptoms and why it is so difficult to treat.

    Well worth reading IMO.
     
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