Creationism

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by magnum, Mar 30, 2011.

  1. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

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    Fun is not nothing.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    There are problems with believing the Bible to be the literal. For starters, it isn't the word of God, he is sometimes quoted in it, but it was always written well after the fact and by men. The Quran is literally the word of God, the bible isn't. The bible was written by 40 different people. If you want to take the bible literally, the world is 6000 years old, people should be stoned for adultery and blasphemy, you shouldn't eat pork, etc. I would suggest you are already picking and choosing what parts of the bible you want to follow. I would also suggest that following the bible literally is a dangerous, extremist, practice.

    Since it is not the direct word of God, it is justly open to interpretation. I see no reason why deriving it as mostly metaphor, and moral lessons, is in anyway less legitimate than taking it word for word.

    Science does not contradict an omnipotent being, therefore there is no religious reason to be anti-science.

    It's just a depressing fact about America. The Left must be Atheist/weekend moderates, the right must be Christians/Evangelicals. The Left must be pro corrupt scientists, the right must be anti-science and anti-intellectual. Polarisation is killing your country.
     
  3. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    While it is true that men wrote the Koran, Bible, Torah, etc., in the Jewish tradition it demanded a harsh penalty for mis-interpretation when recited from pulpit. The Jewish scholars, I noticed, stand next to boys during their Bar Mitzvah to correct them for any errors. The Jewish and Christian holy scriptures are said to be the inspired (breathed) Words of GOD.

    As I understand from ancient history, the early history was passed on in much the same way, and errors were even more harshly punished.

    I do not know any Jews or Christian that are either anti-science or anti-intellectual. They do believe in truth (veritas vos liberat). There has always been, and will continue to be, conflict between good and evil.
     
  4. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    What exactly are you referring to here?

    The bible has been edited and translated many times, I'm not aware that the church actually refutes this. To my knowledge it is pretty generally accepted that the original words written, by the original authors, are not word for word represented in current bibles. For starters, the bible has been translated. That is an undeniable fact, translation requires interpretation. So there you have it, at the most basic level, the current bible is not the original document.

    Wasn't it you that was saying the scientific method is corrupt? That seems pretty anti-science to me.
     
  5. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    The Books of the Bible in their original language are studied by scholars for accuracy. Supposedly the King James version of the Christian Bible is the most accurate historical account, and the Jewish scriptures, as I wrote earlier, have a sever penalty for error, so the accuracy should be there.

    No, neither I, or ANY Christians I know are anti-science. As a matter of fact, most of the great scientific discoveries in the past centuries have been made by men of faith.
    Verits vos liberat
     
  6. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    Studied by scholars = interpreted by man. The general gist of the bibles is obviously there. But complete accuracy to justify taking the bible literally word for word, I don't think that exists any longer.

    In the Western world for the past centuries basically everyone has been "of faith". However the church establishment has been adverse to many scientific theories, Earth not being at the centre of the universe, earth not being flat, evolution, etc, opposing them on religious grounds, thus being anti-science.

    I thought it was you, but apparently not, some guy was saying in a debate about evolution that the scientific method is corrupt. So there's an example of a Christian who is anti-science.

    Think that is about as far as this is going to go. You want to take the bible literally, doubt anything is going to change your mind. So fair enough.
     
  7. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    This is either a lie or pure ignorance. Very little of the Bible exists in original form or language.

    EDIT: I take back "very little.". There is not a single autograph text from the Bible. Not one.
     
  8. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Science works when done correctly regardless of what you believe. That's the whole point of science!
     
  9. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Which is what we see.

    We wouldn't expect it to, unless there was a single event responsible for their creation, like a global flood. And it isn't just their order that leads us to believe that the flood didn't happen. Many of those layers have footprints, dried cracks, raindrop imprints, holes dug by living animals, etc. which rules out any possibility of them having been left by the same flood event.

    BTW, this whole discussion started when you said that there was geological evidence of a global flood. Are you going to provide that?

    I look forward to any evidence or line of reasoning you have to back that up.

    On the contrary. Evidence and reasoning led me away from my religious views. I used to be a young earth creationist.

    We have the original language, but not the original documents. I don't know about the OT, but in order to translate the NT, first you have to have a Greek text, but we don't have the original Greek text, so we have to compare the versions that we do have and use textual criticism in order to decide which texts most closely resemble the original. It isn't easy, and there are more differences between the Greek texts than there are words in the NT. Most of those differences are not important, such as word order, but others are.

    The KJV is translated from the third edition of Erasmus's Textus Receptus. You should read his own account of cobbling that edition together. Not even Erasmus thought that this was the best Greek text to work from. The translation itself isn't as bad as people make it out to be, and I appreciate the fact the KJV clearly indicates which words were added to the translation and which words are a direct translation (most copies italicize words that the translators added), but the source material was not the best. We've discovered older Greek texts since then.
     
  10. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Which is what we see everywhere in the world, like so:
    [​IMG]

    Here the layers were revealed by water carving out the canyon.
     
  11. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    And here you see the layers in the side of the world's tallest mountain.

    [​IMG]

    Here the layers were exposed by the upthrust of rock as a result of the collision of India with Asia about 40 million years ago.

    Mount Everest and The Grand Canyon, on opposite sides of the world, show how sediment has been laid down in layers all over the Earth for millions, indeed billions, of years.
     
  12. stroll

    stroll New Member

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    That's a very beautiful design God has carved the mountains into, isn't the detail of the surface texture amazing? It resembles the patterns modern artists create through layering, the beauty is enhance by the use of snow, like an artist uses paint and pigments.

    How could anybody believe all this has come about by mere chance and coincidence?
     
  13. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    The flat-Earth myth was believed by atheists, Scripture tells us the Earth is spherical, and does not claim the Earth is the center of the universe, beyond using "sunrise and sunset" as we still do.

    Evolution's ONLY source for it's myth is the fossil record, and that record is better example of the Noahtic Flood than millions of years. So the mystical is more in the camp of Darwinists.

    There is much science to confirm the Bible, even more than Evolution.
     
  14. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    No place on Earth does the "geologic column" exist as rendered in the Evolutionists' scriptures. The layers are not consistent from location to location, layers are mixed up and inverted.

    You may not have ever had the truth in school or on NatGeo, but do yourselves a favor and study a little bit beyond the cult doctrine into science.
     
  15. stroll

    stroll New Member

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    Have you really not read any of the hundreds of comments which have explained the ToE and the evidence and observations it is based on, in direct response to your questions and assertions? :omg:
     
  16. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Where does the Bible say the Earth is spherical? I think you made that up or, more likely, stole it from somewhere.
     
  17. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    The geologic column exists everywhere on earth. Where do you get this stuff?

    Sure there are splits and inversions, explained by tectonic motion, like when an earthquake flips over a piece of the column. But the exact way a piece was flipped over and when it flipped over and how it fit in with its surrounding before it was flipped over is completely visible.
     
  18. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]

    Here, again, the layering as a result of millions of years of collection and compaction is evident. Geological stresses have thrust part of the landscape upward at an angle.
     
  19. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    Isaiah 44:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth." The Hebrew word khug is translated "circle" but is more correctly "sphericity". and Proverbs 8:27 uses the same word.
     
  20. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    No place on Earth does the "geologic column" exist as rendered (drawn) in the Evolutionists' scriptures.
     
  21. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    If that is the result of "millions of years" why is the upper level equally as sharp in contrast as the bottom? One can observe washes eroded with greater signs of erosion near the top than the lower parts. But not there, or in the Grand Canyon.
     
  22. Burzmali

    Burzmali Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Bible calls the Earth a circle, not a sphere. Also, the "ends of the Earth" are mentioned dozens of times, and there are no "ends" on a sphere. There are also several passages that are only possible on a flat Earth. For instance:

    A tree cannot be at the "center of the Earth" if the Earth is round because a sphere has no center on its surface.

    The Bible is very clearly a book written with a flat Earth in mind.

    The fossil record shows simple life in the past and more complex life later in the Earth's history. So that is some significant evidence on which Evolution is based. However, most of the other evidence for evolution comes from DNA and physiology. Homologous genes found throughout different species, for example, are evidence of evolution.
     
  23. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Abu Simbel was carved out the side of a low hill composed of millions of years of collection of snadstone sediments. The layering is again plainly evident.
    [​IMG]

    This is a very interesting one. Layers of rock built up for millions of years. Then tectonic warping created crumpled the sheets of rock. At some point, the process halted and new layers of rock began to build up again.
    [​IMG]

    Here is the W standing in front of millions of years of granite layering.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    Isaiah 44:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth." The Hebrew word khug is translated "circle" but is more correctly "sphericity". and Proverbs 8:27 uses the same word.
     
  25. Montoya

    Montoya Banned

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    NB do you you have any 'REAL' evidence to back up your "Creationist theory"? Present physical evidence to prove the earth and universe is only 6000 years old. And simply because the bible says so is not evidence.
     

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