Crime in America today

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by LafayetteBis, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    From here: A World Where Not All Crimes Are Created or Treated Equally

    And it is ONLY UNCLE SAM that can attend to those objectives above in a consistent manner throughout the nation. But anyone looking for solutions from the dorks-in-power at LaLaLand on the Potomac presently are staring into a dark, dark hole ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  2. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,881
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There are studies that say crime is necessary to a society. The fact of the matter is that criminals are not disadvantaged, they are just like the rest of us, except their conscience torubles them less. The prison population represents the less successful, either because they were less intelligent or more heavily surveilled. Uncle Sam can do little or nothing to fix them
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  3. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,021
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Everything democrats advocate is for one primary purpose; to create and expand dependency upon government.
     
    modernpaladin likes this.
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    CIVICS EDUCATION IN THE US

    Wrong!

    Learning right-from-wrong is one of the most essential characteristics of any society. Which is typically done by two societal instruments: the Family and Institutions of Learning (that is primary-, secondary-, and tertiary-level education).

    Frankly, there is nothing more important to the good functioning of all those three instruments of learning. And how the US government functions is taught typically in high-school required Civics Classes. Which is defined thusly:
    Here below is the condition of learning Civics in the US (from WikiPedia here): Civic education in the United States - excerpt:

    Clearly, American students are not being taught sufficiently how their country's political establishment functions or should function.

    PS: And this is quite aside from the fact that our civic-dysfunction derives from two key manipulative instruments employed in electing our governmental representatives. Namely gerrymandering and the voting-unfairness of the Electoral College.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Learning right-from-wrong is one of the most essential characteristics of any society.

    That is typically done by two societal instruments: the Family and Institutions of Learning (that is primary-, secondary-, and tertiary-level education).

    Frankly, there is nothing more important to the good functioning of all those three instruments. And how the US is managed is taught typically in required Civics Classes.

    This is the condition of learning Civics in the US (from WikiPedia here): Civic education in the United States - excerpt:

     
  6. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,881
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Not everyone will conform to any given set of mores. Live with it. It's not about civics, it's about human nature.
     
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What individuals such as you do NOT understand is that Civics is about people and how they govern themselves. Because it is the cornerstone of any functional democracy.

    Unfortunately, two centuries ago the US never got beyond Gerrymandering and the 12th Amendment instituting the Electoral College. Both intended specifically to manipulate the popular-vote. Let's presume that the people running the show in DC at the turn of the 19th century were afraid of the monumental influx of cheap but illiterate labor flooding in from Europe and the danger of some very simple people to be manipulated politically.

    Frankly, that does not matter anymore. The manipulation of schooled and supposedly "intelligent people" happens over the BoobTube nowadays.

    You are blind to the circumstances and their consequences. Namely, the dysfunctional democracy that we have today in America! And how we blindly support its existence when it has just allowed the loser of the popular-vote to accede to the presidency FOR THE FIFTH TIME IN THE NATION'S HISTORY!

    There is no other place on earth, in an advanced democracy, where such can happen presently ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  8. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,881
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    I had thought this thread was about crime, but okay, I'll play along. The reasons for the electoral college are not lost to history. The Senate was to represent the states in the legislature, the House was to represent the people. The legislature voted directly for the President. Over the years that changed to the system we now have.

    That would be because most parliamentary democracies don't allow the public to vote for the Prime minister at all.
     
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The EC and Gerrymandering are MANIPULATIONS OF THE POPULAR VOTE, which is why they should be done away with. Only the purest popular-vote in a two-party system is necessary to determine who represents whom in the two main instances of governance. (The Executive and the Legislative - the Judicial being appointed by the Executive.)

    How many times must that simple statement be made? What you are proposing are "excuses" not reasons. So, for that gibberish above in red, do show me the historic reference. (Mind you, the founding fathers got a great many things wrong. They were simple human-beings. Not gods or saints!

    The "states" are a geographical entity of division. Like a grouping. States have no national function whatsoever other than to provide elected politicians to both "Chambers" of the Legislature. States have a specific function of governments regarding the needs of the state-wide community - and no further. (This specificity has great importance - and I note that because there is the same "local" necessity in Europe but without the ability to make its own laws according to its particular needs.)

    I repeat again, states in the US have NO NATIONAL CHARACTER WHATSOEVER in terms of national politics. Other than their members sent to either Chamber of Congress as a function of their population in the HofR and to a Senate to give all states an equality of representation (only two each) also necessary to maintain a balance between the two Chambers. But either body is concerned ONLY with national affairs (as they may relate to their particular state in some instances).

    It is NOT the easy way to get things done in politics, but the US double-chamber representation does have a ponderance that tends to maintain a necessary balance between the two. (Whereas in Europe, only the Parliament-majority runs the show in most countries - which can make political management anarchic at times.)

    Yes, but the voters all know quite well who is the leader of the party and should it win that person will be the Head of government. I agree that the US system is far more "solid" in that the infighting between parties affects indirectly the governance of the nation. But in Europe when two dominant parties have a go at one another the internal governance of the nation suffers accordingly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  10. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The crime rate is not the problem, which is "guns". Whatever, the comparative homicide-by-firearm rate looks like this (from Vox):
    [​IMG]

    Wow! Am I glad I live in the EU ... !
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  12. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,293
    Likes Received:
    4,346
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm also glad you live in the EU.

    You mentioned crime in your earlier post, not guns. Changing the goal posts because you were proven wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Blah, blah, blah.

    Moving right along ...
     
  14. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's an "excuse" and not a "reason".

    Try harder ...
     
  15. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Total adherence to the popular vote would destroy the union. Large sections of the nation would secede before they would tolerate living how folks in merely more populated regions would dictate they do. Where the individual is valued more than the group, consensus takes a back seat to independence.

    The US only exists as a nation because the popular vote is limited.

    Those more populous regions are quite welcome to secede themselves and live by mob rule, imo. And they are quite able to, in point of fact. But they won't.

    As much as they want majority rule, they want to force it on everyone more than they want it for just themselves. Its not about self governance. Its about collectivising. And its not going to happen by ballots.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What nonsense!

    The right to vote is "fundamental" to any democracy and is a birthright (but exercised at a later age).

    The right to vote FAIRLY is central to any Real Democracy. Gerrymandering is employed to carve out districts to "favor" a given party-desired result. (Both Dems and Replicants do it if and when they can!)

    More fundamental, however, is the Popular-vote, which is the right of ALL CITIZENS of a nation. And what does the Electoral College do to the popular-vote for the presidency? This:
    *The number of EC-votes is determined in respect to the population of a state (which is determined every decade). *However, the EC-vote (for the presidency) accords all of its votes to ONLY THE WINNER of the popular-vote. Which means what?
    *The votes of the "losers" are thrown away, dished, buried, negated, torn up ... and NOT COUNTED in favor of the national candidate for the presidency.
    *That is, if you vote for the loser, your vote is meaningless! Worthless! Of no value whatsoever!

    Willfully destroying your voting rights, boyz-'n-girlz, is no way to run a democracy ... !

    And in fact here is the list of countries that apply an Electoral College vote (from here):
    Not the very best of company, is it ...

    *However, only when both Houses of the Irish parliament (consisting of the Dáil or House of Representatives and the Seanad or Senate) have passed a Bill can the President sign it into law. If the Seanad votes not to pass a Bill, the Bill will lapse after 180 days. However, the Dáil has the power, within those 180 days, to pass a resolution declaring that the Bill is deemed to have been passed by both Houses. (The Senate is thus reduced to a key but "consultory capacity".)
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  17. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't know what else to tell you man. Americans arent going to cede their valued rights to majority opinion. Its that simple.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "Valued rights!" What valued rights? Those concocted at the beginning of the nation because the south refused to join if the Electoral College did not give them a slight advantage? And why?

    Because the European white migrants were pouring into the Northern states, and all the Southern states needed slaves for adequate farming manpower. (That the Northern states wanted to make illegal!)

    So the southern-states refused in the early part of the Republic to sign-on (accept) to the Constitution if it abolished slavery! And they were forced only to accept the illegality of slavery after losing the Civil War!

    Let's not forget that it took us a four-year civil-war (1860/64) to settle that matter! And blacks did not find any "real equality" with whites until the end of the 20th century in America. (See the history of abolishing slavery in both Europe and the US here: "CHRONOLOGY - Who banned slavery when?")

    We were the first of the democratic nations with parliamentary (legislative) rule. But we did not get EVERYTHING right immediately. After WW2, when Europe had to rebuild its democracies, it came to have a look at how the EC worked in America. And they all decided they would have none of it ... !


    To this day, in the EU, the popular-vote decides who sits in the Legislature and the head of the majority party assumes the role of designating the 'Head of state*". (Aka "Prime Minister".)

    Of course, in the US, we have abolished slavery - but we are still a long way from abolishing a reasonable similarity in incomes amongst the different races. And if you don't believe that, have a look at this infographic
    here ...

    *Which is happening today in Great Britain, as the majority party (the Conservatives) of the legislature (aka "Commons") decides upon a new Prime Minister.
     
  19. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Fundamebtally: the right of the individual to value themselves more highly than the group.

    Im not making a moral or ethical argument regarding the EC. Im stating the reality that Americans will secede in large numbers before they submit certain rights to democratic/majority rule. If the majority ban guns, for example, the heavily armed minority will use their guns to resist enforcement, instead of turning them in.
    If we, as a nation, get to the point where a handful of densely populated regions can dominate the political atmosphere and legally dictate day to day life for the rest of America, the rest of America will secede instead of respecting the democratic process. Or, one might say, they'll opt to run their own, seperate, democratic process as their own nation. The EC is the reason this hasn't happened already. Honestly, I think its time we split. This is like a bad marriage, where two people become too different to find common ground. So, sure, get rid of the EC and destroy the union. I won't argue about it. But neither will I adopt the collectivism that some wierd urbanites with an alien (to me) culture think Im obligated to follow just because theres more of them than there is of me.
     
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    FOR A TRUE POPULAR-VOTE IN AMERICAN ELECTIONS

    Then you are denying the principle rule of liberty - that the popular-vote AND ONLY THE POPULAR-VOTE - must decide the electoral outcome of American elections local, state and national.

    Period. So much for the Civics Course in high-school that you have either never had or have long since forgot!

    From here: The Overall Concept of Democracy - excerpt:
    The above extract underlines the nature of any True Democracy, and it is essentially based upon the popular-vote unadulterated by manipulation to benefit the majority of any given political party!

    Meaning quite simply we must rid ourselves of Gerrymandering and the Electoral College's ignominious rule of majority-voting-takes-all. Both of which nullify the True Popular-vote in American political elections ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  21. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Democracy =\= Liberty

    (merriam webster) Liberty-

    1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases. b : freedom from physical restraint. c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic (see despot sense 1) control. d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges.

    The popular vote can be used to opress the minority by arbitrarily restricting their liberty.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  22. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The popular-vote IS oppressing the minority, as I have explained.

    Had the Electoral College been required to report to Congress ONLY THE RESULT OF THE POPULAR-VOTE, then Hillary would be your PotUS today. Hillary obtained the minority vote ONLY BECAUSE THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE GIVES ALL ITS VOTES UNIQUELY TO THE WINNER OF THE POPULAR-VOTE;

    Now explain to me how such a manipulation of the popular-vote is fair, honest and just ... !
     
  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Its honest for anyone that seeks to understand how it works. Theres no part of the EC process that is hidden.

    I doubt the EC could be demonstrated to be fair or just. It was never intended to be either. It was intended to keep the nation unified. Nothing more. And it has done so, so far.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  24. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Compared to countries such as Venezuela, which has very strict firearm-related restrictions and an exceedingly high level of firearm-related deaths the united states is quite safe.
     
  25. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, but you've chosen a country that does not resemble America in the least.

    Let's try, shall we, comparing the US with the EU. In which case, the US has a 7-to-1 difference in gun-death rates ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019

Share This Page