Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by litwin, Nov 24, 2011.
democracy doest work for Dagestan?
Russia better hope the Dagestanis don't become much better armed.
Unfortunately this is the truth. I think this is the result of absence of an ethnic policy in modern Russia which the USSR had. 20 years ago Dagestan was very quiet and friendly place. Though this region populated by more than 40 ethnoses. This is an abscess which Russia should cure. Otherwise there there will be a great massacre.
Democracy? I do not know, whether it is possible to cure this infection using democratic methods.
^^sell (or exchange for Iranian Kurdistan) it to Iran, THe Persians will fix this problem
I never knew Dagestan was in Europe.
Unfortunately it cannot be sold or separated with the purpose to create an independent state. There are 40 ethnoses, without Russia there will be always war. But the most terrible thing is refugees will run to Russia instead of Iran and Turkey.
Geographically in Europe. It is north to Main Caucasus Range.
believe me the Persians know how to fix this problem, has Putin any plan for this region? looks like it gets only worse and worse
And how do you think what is the cause of the permanent war there?
The easiest way is to proclaim that the proud Highlanders resist the colonial policy of Moscow,as the Western imperialists and solidarity with them radical "leftists-ultrainternatsionalists " use to say.Alas, the answer is as simple as it is wrong.It is well known that the national republics of Northern Caucasus are completely subsidized.They do not enrich the "metropolis" but the"metropolis" regularly pays them a kind of tribute to provide at least some order in these territories.I think that the "metropolis" with pleasure would forego such "colonies", but simply can not do this for several reasons.North Caucasian republics are not distant overseas "colonies", they are in all respects the part of the "mother country".The most of the population of these republics do not want to get out of Russia,they simply have nowhere to go out.An alternative to Russia here is only offered by radical Islamists Caliphate.But the whole Caucasus was fed up by this thing during the Chechen independence. As a result, Chechnya has become an inexhaustible source of banditry, war, slavery, robbery ended by Dagestani march of the entire gang army.Thus, Russia simply cannot leave Caucasus itself, because in this case, the destabilization and aggression,moreover supported from abroad, will immediately begin to spread further to Stavropol, Kuban, Astrakhan.
So Russia can not leave Caucasus, but Russia also can not control Caucasus, turning it into a peaceful region of Russia. A deadlock?
If you look at the history of North Caucasus and its relationship with Russia, you can not deny the relative rightness of of those who claim that the peoples of North Caucasus for nearly four hundred years are in a constant war against Russia.There is only necessary to add two important points.The first - all this time did not stop the war of the Caucasian peoples, tribes and clans with each other, which continued even during the times of Imam Shamil. The second - the war of all against all in the Caucasus still had a break in the years of socialism.
Thus, we can say that today North Caucasus is largely returned to its usual condition wich for a short period was interrupted by the Soviet power.Unfortunatelly the situation of the permanent war is a natural situation of Northern Caucasus, determined by the level of its development, the presence of tribal institutions, vendetta, and so on.At all this naturally reborn after the fall of socialism the Middle Ages are superimposed The problems created by capitalism are superimposed at all those naturally reborn after the fall of socialism the Middle Ages.The mixture turns terrifying.
So what have to do here a mythical "Russian imperialism"? In the North Caucasus rule large and powerful family clans. They are opposed by offended clans. The cause of for endless war in the North Caucasus republics is in the structure of society, not in the mythical colonialism of Moscow. The Russian authorities to keep some order must be supported by the most powerful clans, turning a blind eye to their crimes and lawlessness.
Capitalism is clearly preserves the backwardness of the Caucasus. Moreover, if Russia will eventually be ousted from the Caucasus, the situation there will became worse.In this case the Caucasians would lose the opportunity to live in Russia, where they are still pretty fast emancipated. The region will plunge into even a bigger nightmare with sharia courts and unrestrained slaughter, as was during the Ichkerian independence.
"We are like a herd of horses. When we sense danger, we unite immediately in order to confront it. As soon as the danger disappears, however, we start turning on one another." --Chechen proverb
applies equally to Dagestan
is it any possible solution ? for new Dagestan is just Moscow's hemorrhoid(more or less) , but soon it will become Europa´s worst hemorrhoid
Plutocracy hiding under the name "democracy" doesn't really work anywhere. What's good for a country is what is good for everyone in that country, not just the elite.
Russia is no worse off than us, they are just less apathetic. It's actually admirable.
Is Dagestan in Europe?
mat be this will help you
And never has been as never have been Europe Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan.
This ia a point of influence of Turkey and Iran!
Continuously the Russian Invasion forces use kidnap and worse as intimidation tactics .
Anybody who is courageous enough to speak out -- like this teacher --- can be kidnapped in broad daylight , sometimes by groups of armed men who do not even bother to mask themselves .
Any family whose son or near male relative is accused of joining the Freedom Fighters or openly supports the Caucasus Emirate can have their home burned down and there are many cases where family members have been shot dead on an indiscriminate basis whilst trying to flee .
Thousands of Dagestanis stage rally against lawlessness of invaders' terrorist forces
Publication time: 25 November 2011, 23:16
A mass rally( around 6000) and demonstration against kidnappings, lawlessness of security forces of invaders and their collaborators from among the local puppets was held in capital of Dagestan Shamilkala (former Makhachkala) on November 25.
One of the reasons for the demonstrations was the abduction of a village teacher Rasul Magomedov which took place on November 17. Officials of the puppet regime hypocritically declared that "they doing everything possible to find the kidnapped".
However, the protesters shouted with loud exclamations that the Russian terrorists are lying to them as usual and no one believes them.
The organizers of the campaign were relatives of the hundreds of kidnapped people , and the organizations of "League of Just", "Dagestan - territory of peace and harmony" and "Ahlyu Sunnah".
Participants of the mass demonstration accused the Russian special services and the security forces of locals acting as puppets for the outbreak of the "real war in Dagestan", the blame for which "lies on the power structures".
Just put the word "English" instead of the word "Russian@ and you'll get the full bloody and spiteful history of Briitish colonialism!
Britain have had aspirations for Caucasus!
However Russians have always licked them at this place.
I woder what English autorities are going to do when Scottish parlament will ask London to leave their ports and naval bases?
I think this just goes to show that whenever and wherever there is ethnic diversity and poverty together, violence is inevitible.
I think the truth is yours!
Why are you so juvenile ?
Love your own country by all means . But to deliberately choose either to remain ignorant and/or be a denier is unnecessary for a real Russian .
Not everybody knows that Britain has tried for long to instigate Caucasian people against Russian. They gave money, ammunition and gents everything to instigate riots to oust Russians out of the place.
There's no wonder in instigation as the UK has been well notorious for pitting nations against other nations in Russia, in China, in the Northern America in the Middle East, in Africa.
The war still goes on and England still instigate riots turning a blind eye for her own crimes!
By he way only a complete moron may consider CNN and BBC free Mass media!
Russian official mass media is more accurate than those jug handed 'free' mass media!
Looking to Chechnya, I think that the solution will be similar. Pour the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing lot of money in Dagestan.
I certainly do not like this solution but I do not see another
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