Death Penalty

Discussion in 'Human Rights' started by edna kawabata, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Is such truly different? Government arms law enforcement officers, knowing full well that they will inevitably kill someone, and that the killed individual could very well be innocent of any wrongdoing. Yet such is deemed an acceptable price for the matter of enforcing the law, holding that the law is more important than the potential loss of innocent life.
     
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  2. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Aside from the savings in financial costs involved in incarceration, what does society gain by "putting someone down"?
     
  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    It is not about gains or losses. It is a simple fact of reality that there are certain individuals currently alive, who have conclusively proven through their own actions that they are so devoid of any measure of worth, that they are devoid of any reason to being allowed to continue to exist. They demonstrate this fact through the act or murdering or grievously harming others. They demonstrate that they will not abide by the rules of society because they do not wish to, and declare that they will do whatever they want, whenever they want, simply because it is what they want to do.

    What exactly does society "gain" by keeping such individuals alive, and providing them with food, shelter, and medical coverage for the duration of their natural lives? What sort of message is sent to the public at large?
     
  4. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Reread the OP
    Retribution
     
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    It has been read. The opening post of the discussion relates to how innocent individuals receive the death penalty and how such is reason to oppose it. Yet in the following post made on the part of yourself, it was stated those who receive the death penalty do so after a rigorous review of evidence, suggesting that no innocent individuals actually receive the death penalty.

    Either the evidence used as a justification for the death penalty is subject to rigorous review and safeguards to prevent such from happening, or it is not. Which position is it, and why are both positions presented in two separate posts in the same discussion?
     
  6. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    I dont need bias evidence. Commonsense works. I have a relative in prison whom I love. And you are saying he should live with a known remorseless killer....who has demonstrated that they would kill again. I disagree.
     
  7. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What you "gain" is that the individual has lost his/her right to interface with society for the remainder of their natural lives. The message that is sent to society is that if you commit murder, you will lose the right to interface in society quite possibly for the rest of your natural life and who in their rightful mind wants to live in a 6x10 cell for the rest of their life?.
     
  8. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Come on, you don't think even with a "rigorous" review of evidence human error cannot occur? You seem to be arguing for arguments sake.
     
  9. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    There is no right to interface with society.

    Those who have nothing, those who have nothing left to lose, and those who recognize that all of their needs will be provided for at the expense of the state.
     
  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    More accurately it is recognition and acknowledgement of the reality of the situation for what it is. There is little legitimate reason to take issue with the death penalty itself, when all other related factors remain equal and untouched.
     
  11. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Who in their right minds would commit murder? Those are not the right kinds of thinking to have when evaluating a persons mental state.
     
  12. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they are insane, then they should not be executed.
     
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    They might just be mean.
     
  14. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Why not? Mental illness is a condition that can never be cured, only temporarily treated, and only so long as the afflicted is willing to cooperate. It is no different than rabies.
     
  15. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your obviously not a pro-lifer then. Good to know.
     
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's an argument for erring on the side of tending not to use executions, not avoiding them entirely.

    One could example only use it for the very worst type of crimes (worse than ordinary homicide), and/or when the evidence is absolutely certain.
     
  17. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the judgement "absolutely certain" in every death sentence?
     
  18. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Of course not.
     
  19. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    ....or so the jury believes
     
  20. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then why put anyone in prison? Isn't it equally possible to put an innocent in prison? Why judge anyone for fear of making a mistake?
    You're premise of executing someone because their life is worthless is in error. We don't execute for that reason. All life has great value. We don't execute for revenge. We execute to remove individuals from the risk of safety for other individuals.
     
  21. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reason you put someone in prison is to remove their privileges of mixing with society; Whether its for one year or twenty-five years, it serves the same purpose. If incarceration was made in error, compensation to the wrongly convicted can be applied along with restoration of rights.

    Execution is terminal and there is no going back if you've found out after the fact that it was made in error. If it is found out that it was made in error, there is no way to compensate the victim.
     
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  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You cannot restore lost time.

    Guess that works for the godless. For those of us that believe there is a God who compensates the innocent for eternity....it is a different story. Execution is merely to remove heinous criminals , convicted without a reason of doubt, from the planet. Perhaps you beliveed Charles Manson should have remained alive and a sick influence for the mentally depraved. I don't.
     
  23. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed that you cannot restore lost time, however you can at least be compensated financially for monies you would have lost working and for punitive damages as well.

    The godless (and many who believe in god) could care less about compensation for eternity since there is no factual proof that this exists. It's strictly conjecture at this point.

    As to Chuck Manson, I believe that once incarcerated, he spent the rest of his natural life behind bars and was not a threat to society. No need to kill someone who is kept out of society's way.
     
  24. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    All the while being worshipped by fanatics and the mentally deranged, and able to receive mail from those he is able to influence with correspondence.
     
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  25. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is exactly right. He continued to perpetuate evil and augment it's force. Timothy McVeigh, however, was silenced. We never heard another word from him.
     

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