Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by kazenatsu, Jul 10, 2017.
He's a very interesting bloke and explained the ideas behind austerity very well.
Seriously, I have to ask are you attempting to have real discussion of the impact of immigration on the economy???
I ask because I cannot work out if you’re trying to have a shot at the government or the migrants. Putting it in perspective the premise that Australia's standards of living is going down is flat out false. Labor wants to play politics of envy but the facts are fabricated.
First do you want to suggest that basic standard of living is decreasing??? In Australia without lifting a finger other than to fill out a few forms you can put a roof over your head. Without lifting a finger you can fill you cupboards with food again not many nations in the world provide this same. Without lifting a finger you can purchase a mode of transport or in some cases more than one mode of transport and fill it to travel just about anywhere in this nation. Without lifting a finger you can travel to other nations on holidays. In very few nations on this planet you can do the same.
In Australia today you can do ALL these things now… In the past you would have had to make a choice. So considering that, perhaps you could point out exactly where the basic standard of living has taken a downward turn
OR are you inferring the average standard of living is dropping???
Australia has the highest home ownership that it has ever had and the highest new car ownership it has ever had. The ratio of wage to house prices are at their lowest over all ever and frankly the total spend on recreational equipment has never been higher.
I will not believe you consider a reduction in the highest standard of living as some indicator of the premise as from other posts indicate the envy of that end of the market.
OK, so when you can indicate that standards of living has decreased in say the last decade compared to the decade before the premise of your debate is flawed.
BY THE WAY, immigration actually helps the standard of living increase, not decrease. YOUR standard of living is based upon your buying power NOT your wealth.
So can I assume you are actually trying to equate the growing gap of the rich and poor to the immigration debate??? If this is the case you have to understand that poor in Australia is actually relative and subjective. Immigrants who come to Australia are automatically considered poor if they need to rely on welfare for one week. Ergo the asylum seekers bolster the poor figures by around 2% a year. While those want to argue that point, I will point out that this increase is convoluted by governments and oppositions to support cases for and against policies (and not just migration)
I could go on, but unless we have clarification the entire debate is false. For those who want to debate the politics of envy the lie will grow as it has shown in thread already.
Public schools are about $200 a year in Australia.
You're spending way more than you need to on groceries!
Clothing is only 'expensive' if you're so spoilt that you can't wear op shop stuff, and/or refuse to shop at kmart
Yes, we are our own worst enemies.
Meantime, those who complain about rents/housing, are almost always those who demand to live in the most expensive inner city areas. You never hear those complaints from people in regional or outer suburban areas. Again, self-inflicted spoilt-brattery.
The costs of outer suburban living are often offset by commuting costs in time and money. It can be a toss up when deciding where to live.
I'm not sure about school costs now, but government schools cost me nearly that much twenty years ago when my kids were in secondary school.
I don't mind op shop clothes, but we got used to having new clothes and not second hand or hand me downs.
Kmart is no longer cheap fair quality clothing. It is cheap rubbish which does not last long.
Example, even if a weekly train ticket is $100 from the outskirts to the CBD, the rent can be less than half .. so there is no comparison. I know someone paying $660pw for a studio apartment in city fringe, while a similar property (actually better, as it's bigger, and includes a car space) an hour out, rents for $320pw. You're still well ahead even factoring in the $100 for train. If you move to a regional city with good infrastructure (Bendigo, Goulburn, etc), you're miles ahead. There are fewer candidates for jobs, small business opportunities, virtually no commuting costs, and cheap rent/house prices. Of course, your Bendigos and your Goulburns are becoming expensive by comparison to other smaller cities, because so many city folk have realised all the above. They're buying up the good stock of beautiful old houses, and getting some of that good affordable life.
Public high schools run at about $200 in actual fees .. plus excursions and sports etc. Wouldn't get anywhere near $1000, much less $4000.
Km@rt is indeed, rubbish. Op Shop clothing is a better option.
When I told that my daughter she first couldn't believe what I was saying, then burst into laughter. She told me "yes dad, that was when I was a child, but things have changed since".
It looks like my grandchildren aren't as cheap to get through public schools as it used to when my daughter went through the system.
That's the 2017 fee. Actually it's more like $180-something. Add in excursions/sports, voluntary contributions etc, and it amounts to around $500 a year.
Exactly, $200 is ridiculous, my son is in public Secondary, it was $4000 (including laptop of $1500 & uniform A$500) to get him into his first year, I received the paperwork for year 8 this week, here's the list, not including another pair of A$70 school shoes I bought him a week ago because he's growing so fast, uniform I bought last year won't last much longer
A$724 school fees
A$369 for books
Mate, do you or have you had kids at school and when? Honestly...
Your all right, most public schools ask around $200 to $300 in fees for our "free" public education. Don't get me wrong, I spent many years as president of my kids P & C and know that the money is needed to "top up" their budget allocations. This and education is an entire topic on it's own so I will leave it here.
So on average, we are at $250. Any year you can get away with only forking over $250 for excursions, field trips, school events etc is a good year, most of us will pay around $1000 to $2000 for 1 or 2 camps alone. so we are $600 pa already.
Now sports, if your kid is into sports you just double everything at least, but for most sport will add around $100
OK while on the subject of sports, sports organisations, local charitable and service groups etc all seem to like sending schools books of raffle tickets, there is the school fete, other P&C related events. This will cost us around $100 pa. They will attend at least one formal, which if your the proud parent of a young lady will cost you around $500, averaged out over 10 years add $50 pa so we are now at $850.
If your child goes to the tuck shop only once a week and only spent $5 you're very lucky, add $200 per year .... $1050 total so far and we haven't looked at shoes or uniforms, books, calculators, laptops etc and they're the expensive bits.
As for all the elcheapo garbage, $2.00 tee shirts cotton takes just as many resources, energy, land and water etc as $40 ones but we buy 10 times as many.
I bought an ACDC tee shirt, genuine, still had the label attached at my French Taylor, "St Vincent De Paul" for $10 and a beautiful pair of handmade Italian leather boots which I have had now for 5 years (resoled twice) by far the most comfortable shoes I can remember, for $5.
Of course if your a mean stingy tight r's you may halve that. If you are financial burdened talk to the ladies in the canteen, most run a secondhand exchange, donate or at least very cheap uniforms etc, speak to the P&C etc.
three kids, two in high school. maximum $350-400 per year, each. no 'camps' in senior years .. or at least they're optional (our kids hate school camps, so always opt out). sports only compulsory up to year 11, and there are plenty of free options. canteens/tuck shop expenditure is optional. laptops are optional (at least in regards to how many family members share one, etc). haven't included uniforms, because they're not 'fees'. We spend about $120-150 per year each on same.
No uniforms are not fees but they are compulsory in most schools. They are an expense of educating your children. Correct there are no camps for seniors, 11 and 12, but junior years yes, so I averaged them over the 10 years, yes you can get away with a family laptop, but that would disadvantage some if you have 2 or 3 older children.
Yes you can pick up cheap made in china/india/wherever pants for $15 to $20 each at Target or Big W etc and to get say 2 x lang pants, 2 x shorts, 2 x tees, 2 x shirts, I jumper, socks and shoes would easily come to your $150, without books pens etc at K Mart etc. To buy the same from Lowes, a good Australian brand, usually has school logos etc would cost around $500 for a senior student. I can think of a dozen of my expenses I would give up to ensure my children look respectable.
A guy in a pub one afternoon after work was complaining of the cost of educating his kids. I said "Beer is expensive too". He said that is why he limits himself to 2 after work.
Cost of giving his children an education for their future ... approx. $2000-$3000 pa. Cost of his "2" beers ... approx. $3000-$4000 pa
Add cigs to that, and you're up around $10k a year. Some people don't deserve kids.
The laptop in "our" school is not optional, if you want to attend this public school you need a laptop and it has to be purchased via the school. The price for the laptop is double than what you will purchase it for privately for several reasons,
1. insurance for 3 years
2. The school has their own IT department with two techs who will swap parts instantly. The reason for the service department is that 90% homework is submitted online. If you don't have your laptop it's your problem. You get detention for un-submitted or late homework. Also if your laptop is not charged for an entire day's use.
Any changes to your schedule is also advised electronically, it's your responsibility to make sure you show up where you're suppose to be... if not, detention.
They gave us three options, I bought the top of the range because my son is looking at a computer science or engineering field.
The school also "locks" the laptop so students can't misuse it, so whilst they get the full Adobe suite & other great programs for free use within the schools software, there's no download and install of games, only online research, google, you tube etc. They can also see everything students do on these laptops, even in private time. School provides free wifi for students.
I think schools who do not use laptops are falling behind because there's very few jobs out there that do not require the use of computers in some way. It teaches the kids how to use the laptops for work... not play.
Things are changing and they're moving from a "memorise everything you can & answer questions" system to teaching "how to research find good sources and write essays"
No I didn't like paying the premium for the laptop but after a few things went wrong and was repaired within minutes I stopped complaining.
At my school, a "computer" was compulsory also.
Oh and my 101 year old father said it was in his day too.
We had little blackboards, pencils, dipping pens and then fountain pens.
Times tables and later, Kaye and Labey Logarithm books.
If you want disposable clothes. Ones that you discard after two washes the it is OK but if you want quality.........
Problem is that we have forgotten not only how to make our own but that we CAN. I was looking through the family linen. Huge table cloths all hand crocheted and thought " this is just no longer done"
Oi remember dem.........
WE had to use these
Separate names with a comma.