Defunding the Police? It's a test.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by spiritgide, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    16,080
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A rational person might see that question as a fundamental test to see if your cerebral cortex, the part of the brain where reason and logic takes place- was dead or not.

    Defunding police equals no police.
    No police equals no law and order.
    No law and order equals mob rule and the destruction of the society involved.
    It's not a trick question, nor a complicated one.

    There will always be irresponsible parents- children raising children, and worse. Thus, there will always be irresponsible and angry adults, whose limits of behavior will be determined only by the enforcement of law. Law enforcement cannot be perfect, it is made up of human beings. However, compared to the lack of it, there is no alternative that is better. It is an absolute necessity, and despite it's flaws, makes it possible for the average citizen to enjoy liberty and pursue happiness.

    ANY city that will not support and back it's law enforcement service DOES NOT deserve law and order- and defunding police will get them exactly what they deserve. Minneapolis has done this.... but now, they want the rest of the nations tax dollars to help defray the $500 million dollars in damages.

    Perhaps it's better if the federal government says- “You got yourself into this position.....
    You get yourself out.”
    It's not an act of God or nature that put them there- it was their own decisions.

    Everywhere support for police is faltering, the crime is soaring. In New York City, the potential for crime is always being barely contained- which is why they have 40,000 policemen. Even so, if they have an electric blackout at night, by moring the thefts, vandalsim and violence will be massive- because a substantial number of their population is criminal enough to feel enabled just by the cover of darkness, and unrestrained- except by police. Yet, the leadership in New York City has voted to cut $1 Billion dollars from the polilce budget- and the residents are not outraged enough to stop it.

    We are seeing big increases in police taking early retirement, leaving big city forces where the support is weak and leadership cowardly, cops leaving to move to places who still appreciate them. Sooner or later- we will see an entire city's police force resign en masse, walk out and quit their city and leave it to the thugs- because that city fails to value them. I won't blame them, because such people don't deserve law and order.

    Only criminals or idiots are in favor of defunding ( that IS eliminating) the police.
    Consider it a kind of test- of either character or intelligence, or both.
    What will your city leaders do? What will the citizens of your city allow them to do?
    What will you do?

    So far, that attitude hasn't blossomed in my city. Even so, I'm going to thank each cop I see for doing his job, so that they know that at least some of us still appreciate the risk they take for us.
     
  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,466
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I disagree with your definition of "defund the police" - and don't think it represents the wishes of the "defund the police" movement.

    The point is to decrease funding to a Gov't department - in this case the Police - not to ZERO - but to a lower amount.

    As a fiscal conservative In general I agree with decreasing Gov't spending. - not necessarily to every department but there is a whole lot of unnecessary spending and waste going on. The Police and justice system is one I definitely agree with.

    The reason we need so many police is due to bad law/legislation. Yet this is not being discussed in the Mainstream. This is the root cause of much of the problem and the excessive spend.

    There are 2.3 million "official" criminals in this nation - people who are or who have been incarcerated.

    Yet - we have a law on the books that criminalizes something that 12% of the entire population does on a regular basis - and in some demographics it is above 20%. That is roughly 40 million people. If we extend this to occasional basis users it is more like 100 million.

    How about we turn 100 million criminals into 100 million law abiding citizens - by decriminializing pot. Then Police don't have to spend half their vice time on Pot. The courts do not have to process pot convictions - and our jails do not have to house pot offenders.

    In doing this we have "defunded" the ability of police to chase after 100 million citizens.

    Sounds like a good plan in my books.
     
    557, gabmux and dairyair like this.
  3. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Whoever the gebonzo or gebonee who came up with the bumper sticker phrase " Defund The Police" must be the Emperor of Empty Headed Idiots. Using that term only leads to people having to say " wait hold it no
    younwant to get rid of police?". The fans of thatbidiotic phrase have clerify " itdoes not mean to defund the police is means ---------------. "

    Sometimes you just can't stop the stupid s from being idiots.
     
    Josh77 and drluggit like this.
  4. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The left believes police are not needed because humans are such peaceful and loving beings....lolz! History proves otherwise. The powers that wanna be want society to break down in order to gain more power.
     
    usfan and roorooroo like this.
  5. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,380
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Psst. 'Defunding' means cut their budget. When Ronald Reagan slashed the Medicaid funding levels by 18%, he was 'defunding' it. Got it?

    Now I am not a fan of defunding police departments or other departmentswithout having a real good reason to do it because for the most part they need more cash to fund reforms, and education, and still provide services. but I can support it ...

    1. if you are putting the resources elsewhere and putting some duties and obligations elsewhere as part of a restructuring of the department.

    2.if the mayor and city council has a recalcitrant and defiant bureaucracy that refuses to accept the general authority of the municipal government to set priorities and promote reform.
     
  6. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    See how a stupid phrase such as "Defund the police" get misunderstood, misused, and misinterpreted.
     
    dairyair and yardmeat like this.
  7. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,798
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Webster sez,
    Definition of defund
    transitive verb
    : to withdraw funding from

    Definition of dismantle
    transitive verb
    1: to disconnect the pieces ofwill have to dismantle the enginealso : to destroy the integrity or functioning ofThe program was later dismantled due to a lack of funding.
    2: to strip of dress or covering : DIVEST
    3: to strip of furniture and equipmentdismantled the ship before scrapping it
     
    HockeyDad likes this.
  8. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But the Yahoo!'s who want to defund Planned Parenthood mean to defund the entire service not just the small part which is the abortion service.
     
    FoxHastings likes this.
  9. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    OK so Defund Planned Parenthood means shut the phlockets down, right?
     
  10. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,163
    Likes Received:
    30,631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have yet to hear anyone say we should withdraw ALL funding from the police.
     
    FoxHastings likes this.
  11. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So when extremist radical crazier than schiest Libertarians want to defend the government they must mean exactly that.....

    zero , 0, $0 dollars in taxesfkr any governmental operations, right!

    PS Iam talking about the craziest of the crazy Libertarians not the Paul Rands of the world who are just a bit nutty.
     
  12. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    56,871
    Likes Received:
    22,778
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh so I guess when BLM called for dead cops now they were just joking?

    Hahaha!

    Lefties: "Defund the police!"

    The American people: "What a stupid idea!"

    Lefties: "You misunderstood!"
     
    HockeyDad, drluggit and roorooroo like this.
  13. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,380
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes you got it! If you withdraw 100 dollars of funding from a 3,000 dollar budget, then you are 'defunding' it by a 2.5% percentage. . Its a budget cut!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  14. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    20,133
    Likes Received:
    16,080
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    The intent of those advocating defunding is hardly saving a few bucks, and I'm sure you know that. Minneapollis says the police force can't be "reformed", so they are dismantling it.

    How about your job? What if the company decided that it's employees were beyond fixing lost all confidence in them and decided to restructure everything and cut your pay by 18%.
    You of course would still be happy to bust your ass for company? Something that probably wasn't happening any way, but you get the point. IF your police are just treading water to keep a paycheck till something better comes along and they reallly don't give a damn about the job getting done, why should they take any risk to protect anyone?

    Thats what defunding does- it's a combination of damages that range from the destruction of the force to the destruction of motivation and pride in what you do.
    Smart move? NO.

    Concession to the thugs? Absolutely. You tell them that the city administration will at least handicap the police, so they have a free hand when the riot.

    I think you fail the test.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  15. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As far as I understand England did not actually have a police force until the early 1820s. Are you saying they had no law and order before then?
     
  16. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,798
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, that means stop government funding of Planned Parenthood. Let them find private funding. I bet you knew that before you typed your question, didn't you?
    Before you jump on what you perceive my stance to be on abortion and birth control, I am all for giving anybody who cannot afford it, as much birth control as they want. In the long run, it saves millions in tax dollars.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
    roorooroo likes this.
  17. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To what particular service are you referring, and why could that service not be provided on the market?
     
  18. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30,989
    Likes Received:
    28,455
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trickle down poverty..... LOL... Good one. When BLMs says abolish the police they mean exactly that. Democrats who heard that used their mealy mouthed version so they could either a) pretend they were listening, or b) testing to see if folks were listening, or c) just being cute for its own sake. For any of the above, democrats have full throatily endorsed the abolish the police thing. Defunding can mean just cutting budgets and it might even be reasonable in some cases. But that is a far cry from actually abolishing police as is the conversation in say Minneapolis where the city counsel folks are actually going to abolish the police.

    Now why does this matter? By getting rid of police, democrats believe they can abolish the overhead of the super pricey pensions they promised all those nice police retirees. And once off the books, they have soooo much more money to give away to their pals who actually vote for democrats these days... I'd say democrats are in it to steal it. And nothing more. They don't care about poverty. They don't care about crime. They just care that there is an unstoppable flow of money they can pay back their benefactors with.
     
    doombug likes this.
  19. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No you are interpreting that asinine stupid phrase of "Defund the police" in it's extreme.

    Whether of not the BLM gebonees called for killing police should be or is another thread. I am sure that indivjdual BLMers did say that but did a group of the BLM leaders actually say that? I will take the hectic thatvTrump fans take when asked to comment of a Trumpien Stupitocty----- " didn't see that report" or "I was not at that press conference " or I was not at that meeting".
     
  20. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,380
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And
    I think you failed reading comprehension. If they are moving over the responsibilities elsewhere. then I don't care. It does not have to be the same agency, with the same name, and the same people and the same structure. 'Defund' the city police department, gradually and start funding another agency called 'Law Enforcement and Social Enhancement Agency' by incremental amounts. Cut the staffing budget of the police department and hire staffing in the new one with new policies, new procedures and a new structure and hopefully a new culture. The city police can apply to be hired and retrained, or they can decide not to and the city can either recruit from elsewhere or train new police from scratch the way they want them to do the job. Its a well used tool in government, when dealing with stubborn bureaucracies.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  21. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    46,841
    Likes Received:
    18,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, don't really care about your stance on BC or abortion for yet matter. Just pointing out that the use of such a phrase can be and is almost allways misunderstood and suggest toninterpretation.
     
  22. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,798
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you think these people are looking to cut the budget of the police by just
    2-1/2%? In Minneapolis two years ago the chief of police asked the man child mayor for 400 additional policemen. Tired of the increasing crime the majority of the people were in favor of that move. After much consternation the far left city clowncil and the mayor gave the chief 14 of the 400 and none of them were allowed on the street. That is the same idiot mayor who allowed an entire police precinct to be looted and burned to the ground which helped set the stage for all the rioting and burning all over the country.
    Let's move on to their demand which is Dismantling.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  23. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What services are you thinking the government can supply better than the private sector?
     
  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Are we going to be defunding the DEA and ATF as well? If so, Im on board.

    If not, then this is just a ploy to erode local authority and centralize/federalize it. And screw that!
     
  25. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,380
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your own definition kills you. How much of a budget cut they intend, depends on who is using the term and why they want to 'defund also depends on who is using the term. In two different cities under different mayors and city councils, its going to mean either a 2% cut or a 25 or 50% cut and the 'why' will change as well.

    Its Minneapolis business how they want to handle the disparate responsibilities for law enforcement in their town, and if the voters want to reconsider their choice of mayor or city council they can. Trust me, they won't be getting far without funding other agencies to get similar jobs done, albeit in different ways. Its not happening in a vacuum.
     

Share This Page