Delusions in a Godless Universe

Your OP is based on unsupported assertions and you refuse to use any kind of reason to defend them. If you are interested in a reasonable discussion, make reasonable arguments and respond reasonably to reasonable challenges to your assertions.

 

I don't know how many times you need called on this bullshit before you actually stop doing it. In thread after thread you are in, your position is countered with evidence and logical reasonings. You never, EVER address these, you simply claim the other posters are using ad hom against you, which clearly shows you have no idea what the word means. You then ignore outright or just handwaive away the evidence and arguments you are give, then make a post claiming nobody is giving you any evidence or arguments.

it's tiresome, and pathetic.

 

I see no difference between 'incorrect beliefs', and 'delusion'. If something is not true, and it guides the decisions in your life, is that not basing your life on a delusion?

If the only function of 'religious faith', is to comfort people, then that is the worse kind of delusion.. a person bases their whole existence on a fantasy. And in a godless universe, what else could belief in God be called? The delusional beliefs ruin everyone's life, by not facing reality.

Ultimately, nothing matters anyway, in a godless universe, but living in reality would seem to be advantageous to living in a fantasy world. Those facing reality would seem better equipped for survival than those deluded by imaginary distractions.

 

The only conclusion one can logically make.. if this is, indeed, a godless universe, is that delusion is a most prevalent human trait. A majority of people have believed, delusionally, that there is a God and a supernatural dimension beyond our senses. And even among those who have Awakened from this delusion, and recognize the hard reality of this godless universe, remnants of delusion remain. Morality, Meaning, Significance, Love, Soul, Beauty hang on, when there is nothing really there. Those are platitudes from a God Ordered universe, not possible in a godless one.

Only very rarely does anyone break free from all the baggage of delusion that comes from believing in God.

 

In the godless universe we are assuming, do all humans have perfect knowledge of the nature of the universe? IE, do all humans know that the universe is godless?

If the answer is "no", then those beliefs are not delusions. They are just incorrect.

 

There's rational basis for Meaning, Morality, Significant, Love, Beauty, etc (not the Soul, that's inherently irrational) because all of those things are linked to improving the survivability of social species.

 

Of course you don't. It would hurt your argument if you did, and you know this, which is why you have started using a cherry picked, selectively quoted definition in order to define delusion, which is the height of intellectual bankruptcy.

 

Of course they don't. If we assume a Godless universe, obviously many (most!) people do NOT know that. They believe otherwise. Therefore they are deluded, believing something so fantastic about the universe that is not true. Sure, they're incorrect, too. Same thing..

If those are human constructs, then they are based on imaginary or arbitrary behavioral conditions imposed for control, wishful thinking, or delusion. There are no 'a priori' Standards, just whatever each person chooses from the imagination smorgasbord.

No ad hom needed. Just try to follow the reasoning..

If you can't or won't, i can't help it. I've presented as simply and clearly as i can.

Show me an example of a Real Moral Standard, in a godless universe..

How is that not just an imagination? Wishful thinking, or for control? AKA, a delusion.

 

This argument remains unsupported. Your OP requires that it be true, but you have offered no evidence for it or any line of reasoning that supports this conclusion. Nor have you who shown any way in which a God-ordered universe would provide any of those things in a way that a natural universe cannot. It remains nothing more than a baseless statement of faith, and one that has been refuted by empirical evidence and reason. You are starting from the assumption that usfanism is true, but are unable to defend it or provide any reason why anyone else should accept it is true. Just a reminder.

 

Then their beliefs are simply incorrect, not delusions.

Where do you get this idea that something isn't real because it is arbitrary?

Except delusions are defined by their relaitonship to mental illness. Psychology and psychiatry do not define all imaginary or incorrect beliefs as delusions. And you know that, which is why you arbitrarily exclude parts of the definition of "delusions" because it hurts your argument. You are being deliberately intellectually dishonest rather than having an honest debate.

Universal moral standards don't exist so why would I show you an example of one? Morality is already a subjective thing.

 

The Easter Bunny
Tooth Fairy
Flying Spaghetti Monster
Superman
X-Men
A Rational Progressive (sorry, couldn't resist! )

Are any of these Real Persons?

Can people fly? See through walls? Leap tall buildings with a single bound? Know if you've been bad or good?

If you truly believed in these things, would not people think you a child or delusional?

In a godless universe:
God
Angels
Demons
..are imaginary characters. And the superpowers they give are delusions:
Eternal soul
Moral standards
Purpose for existence
Love & Beauty
Significance

It is obviously true, that IF THIS IS A GODLESS UNIVERSE, then delusion is widespread. People actually believe these things, which have no basis in science or reason.

 

It still would not be a delusion as defined by the word. Either honesty work with the definitions that exist or admit that you arbitrarily are redefining words to fit your argument.

 

Moral standards are subjective.
The purpose for existence is subjective.
Significance is subjective.

There is no universal standard for any of these in reality.

 

So was the Holocaust.

 

..so you assert, with no supporting reasoning. I provided definitions, and logical progressions. You can certainly dismiss them, but you have not rebutted anything. Ad hom slip ins about my honesty reveal desperation and logical failure.

So you believe. But your assertions are not 'settled science!', or proven fact.. just unsupported opinions.

They are a logical conclusion, in a hypothetical 'godless universe', but only there.

IF... this is a God ordered universe, the conclusions and implications are starkly different.

 

How exactly was the Holocaust linked to improving the survival of a social species?

 

Do I need to quote your own posts where you have selectively edited the definition of delusion?

I can post links to the DSM if you want to see that incorrect or imaginary beliefs do not usually qualify as delusions.

In reality, ie THE WORLD WE LIVE IN, morality is subjective. That is a fact. There are no universal moral standards. When you claimed a number of supposed universal morals, it took me only seconds to poke massive holes in each example that you brought up, which you resolutely refuse to acknowledge.

 

1. 'Poking holes!' is your belief, only. ..perhaps a delusion..
2. 'No universal morality!' is your belief, only. You have not proved this, but only asserted it. The evidence for human universal morality is abundant and overwhelming, in every culture, era, and region. But it is a logical conclusion for the assumption in this thread, and a point in the OP.
3. 'Morality is subjective!', is your belief, and rests on the ASSUMPTION of a godless universe. It is the assumption of this thread, and is a logical conclusion. Perplexingly, you argue against this..
4. I only begin to ignore repeated assertions, and fallacies. Valid arguments and reasoning is addressed with delight, because they are so rare.

 

You brought up lying and fraud as universal wrongs. I asked if Oskar Schindler was wrong when he lied and fabricated documents. You said nothing.

You said Theft was wrong. I asked out if it was wrong for people to steal from other people in the form of taxation. You said nothing.

You said murder was wrong. I asked if soldiers who kill civilians (even if on accident) are immoral. You said nothing.

You have yet to demonstrate a single universal moral example for humans yet. They all have exceptions and subjective variants.

Morality is a subjective does not rest on a godless universe. What if god is amoral? What if god is actively evil? What if god is so alien that morality doesn’t apply to the universe? Your false dichotomy only represents your lack of imagination.

 

The Master Race had to be purified to prevent terminal degeneration of the species, did it not?

 

Except there is no master race and nothing in the Nazis twisted ideology is backed by actual science, so no it did not.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. In a Godless universe, of course, the Nazis would have had not the slightest obligation to believe it; and had they prevailed in WW2, they'd have had plenty of reason to believe otherwise.

Get real, had Hitler prevailed, "science" would say he could levitate mountains, if he so decreed.

 

Under the set condition, all of the listed potential delusions, which contain the word 'God', must be delusions. All other items would remain untested.

 

I am non religious, but something has always thrown me.

I have subjective experience independent to the external material reality.

I can accept it all, that everything is a chemical process, that if you had complete knowledge of the position and movement of every quark you could predict the future, that if you created a body double of me with all the same atoms it would be identical.

But I cannot fathom how I have subjective experience. Why do I but that rock does not? What physical prpcess can possibly lead to something so intangible?

Don't even get me started on other people - I have no such evidence for them. For all I know you're all just mindless robots.

This is the only thing that makes me think there must be something more.

 

Let's look at those..

3. There is a soul
4. There is an absolute moral code
5. There is a heaven and hell
6. Love is a deeply spiritual experience
7. Life has purpose and meaning
14. The choices you make in life have eternal consequence
15. Angels and devils are real beings
16. There exists a spiritual dimension.

These don't have the word 'God' in them, but there is an implication of a God, or Supernatural Being that has the ability to create a soul, embed morality, and has an interface with humanity beyond the material.. this Being is inescapable, if any of these things are real. Heaven & hell? Angels? A soul? Eternal consequence? How could a godless universe have any of those things? Even a spiritual dimension, with spiritual beings, destroys the belief in a purely naturalistic universe. A pandora's box of infinite possibility opens up, once you abandon pure materialism. God becomes, not only possible, but necessary.

There can be no soul, or eternal spiritual consequences in a purely material, godless universe. Those things can only be delusions.. philosophical baggage, left over from the delusion of believing in God.

..thanks for the reasoned reply..