Derek Chauvin Murder Trial is on

I don't think it requires a medical condition. I think that holding people down in a prone position is dangerous even without a condition.

 

It doesn't kill people if its done properly! Just like handling a firearm doesn't kill anyone if its done 'properly'. And when you don't?

 

That is a pathetic answer to:

Putting a person in handcuffs, in the prone position, is KNOWN to reduce a person's oxygen intake, and so is not WITHOUT RISK; therefore, it is NOT PROPER POLICE PROCEDURE, no matter what you say, to LEAVE a person in that position for longer than necessary-- and that is true, even without the weight of three men restricting the ability of your ribcage to expand, & so your lungs to take in oxygen, and the weight of another man on your neck. If, to maintain control of his handcuffed suspect, who had become unconscious, due to lack of air, Chauvin felt he Still NEEDED to keep his knee on Floyd's neck-- & Chauvin doesn't appear overly-concerned about losing control of the situation, in the later parts of the video-- then he is a menace to society, as a police officer.

Please share a link, Buri, to the police training material that says that all suspects are to be handled as though they are in peak physical condition, so if they end up dying due to any compromising circumstances (as being drunk or on drugs, etc.), or any underlying medical conditions, that's too effing bad for them. Not our problem or concern. Not our fault.

I think you are using your own experience, which I am beginning to think did not go, strictly, by the book, to advocate for other law enforcement mavericks not being held accountable for a blatant disregard for the welfare of citizens in their custody. Certainly, police have a right to protect their own safety, and are obliged to protect the safety of their fellow officers. The part you seem to discard, is that these DO NOT ABSOLVE police from their equally important obligation to protect citizen safety, most definitely including people who are in their custody.

 

It's really quite irrelevant what you underlined. The important thing is that you quoted what I said,
but didn't seem to have read it. And if you wanted to see what you underlined, you could have simply gone back and checked.

The one in this reply to you: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-pakistani-man.586492/page-16#post-1072565005

Why did you feel the need to say this? Is it important in ANY way at all? Are you just deliberately trying to derail the discussion?

You seem to be under the impression that I challenged you on not having watched more of the trial. Read what I said again:

"So you formed your opinion on the prosecution case alone? I gotta tell you, that surprises me. I really thought that you were too intelligent for that."

When did I say that I am "paying close attention to every moment?"

I cannot say, neither acquittal, or found guilty of everything. I don't have the required legal knowledge to make an opinion on any legal case. All I know is that there is a BUNCH of reasonable doubt in this case, and the justice system requires guilt to be determined BEYOND reasonable doubt. That is the standard isn't it?

 

Yes, that I don't have any.

 

I am sticking to the facts and the opinion of those who matter, haven't you listened to the defence experts yet? Or do their opinions not matter when it contradicts your viewpoint.

No you can't, how can you prove how much force you're putting on, even if it was just one footed. Both the APA and HRW ignore the disproportionate black violence which forces the police into violent confrontations with them. No one used deadly force on him, he used a legitimate restraint technique and Floyds drug abuse and heart condition killed him.

What deadly force? Did I miss the bit where Chauvin shot him? Chauvin used reasonable force and just had the bad luck to pick the one in a million druggie who would die from it. The defence is obvious, it was a culmination of factors which killed him, most of them self inflicted.

 

Delusional rather than biased then.
Somebody begging for their life is not whining, but maybe it was the begging that Chauvin was getting off on, if he doesn’t take the stand, than he leave a space for that interpretation.
At this point in the trial my speculation is that the police officer was getting visceral, even sexual pleasure from the big black man being in his power and begging for his life.
Maybe evidence from Mr Chauvin (and the words he chooses to use...maybe he will choose ‘whining’) will clear up questions about his mindset.
That’s if he has the balls to testify.

 

A medical expert for the defense, I think, got it right. The state autopsy called it wrong in calling the death of George Floyd a homicide. It might be. It might have been from over dose having 4-5 times as much fentanol in his system as necessary to kill you all by itself with no other aggravating factors required whatsoever. That means cause of death indeterminate. If that guy is right, and I think he is, then you do not convict on "indeterminate". Not guilty doesn't mean innocent. It means we don't know beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty of anything.

This just in: "
One of the main arguments being advanced by Eric Nelson, sole attorney for Derek Chauvin in his trial for the murder of George Floyd, is that the hostile crowd itself prevented the officers from attempting to perform CPR in the last minutes of Floyd’s life.

Even the prosecution’s “use of force” experts admitted repeatedly on cross-examination that a hostile crowd would justify Chauvin keeping Floyd restrained until an ambulance arrived. An officer’s duty to provide care is overridden by his duty to keep himself, the suspect and the bystanders safe.

As was evident from the videos (and admitted to by the bystander witnesses), they were shouting obscenities at the police, threatening them with bodily harm and, in a few instances, had to be held back from rushing the officers.

And of course, because of the presence of the angry crowd, the EMTs themselves did not stick around to provide care, but did a “load and scoot,” heaving Floyd into the back of the ambulance and driving three blocks to get away from the mob on the street. They didn’t even want to work inside an ambulance near this feisty group." www.anncoulter.com

 

What a load of rubbish!
The "angry hosile" crowd:


By the time the ambulance arrived Floyd was already dead so obviously the crowd would be angry at the time the ambulance arrived, they watched officers slowly kill a man for nine minutes even after many people were saying that Floyd was dying

 

Why do you think that? One of the recommendations I heard for Covid treatment was sleep on your stomach to aid breathing.

 

The one that killed Floyd. The one that Chauvin is being tried for on murder charges. Did you miss the news?

If you're going to invent garbage to support your argument(s) there's no point in any discussion with you. That seems to be the pattern with most Chauvin apologists.

All expert witness testimony from Chauvin's superiors and police trainers testifying for the prosecution concur that the force used was "unnecessary", "excessive" and "deadly". Chauvin was fired for what he did. He wouldn't be on trial facing murder charges if he used reasonable force. Floyd was a drug addict who died from the actions and inactions of Chauvin. Floyd is not on trial and nothing about Floyd has anything to do with the actions and inactions of Chauvin. But even if it's true that Floyd actually died from drugs and/or his medical condition and it just happened coincidentally that Chauvin pressed his knee into Floyd's neck for 9:29 mins, Chauvin is still responsible for failing to provide medical assistance in accordance with his training and even refusing assistance. So in that scenario Chauvin's inactions (discounting the knee to the neck) were the substantial causal factor in Floyd's death and that would satisfy the primary component for which Chauvin is being charged. And even the latest expert witness for the defense agrees with that. So that's pretty much unanimous.

The defense tactics are indeed obvious, throw everything and the kitchen sink into the testimony and ignore the actual facts and inculpatory evidence in order to try to raise doubt in at least 1 juror's mind. No one has testified that Floyd committed suicide, not even the defense. And in fact the latest expert witness testifying for the prosecution claims Floyd might have died from CO poisoning. And even if that's true, Chauvin bears full responsibility for that. Floyd would not have caused himself to inhale CO for an extended period of time.

 

I'm sure having 4 doctors and nurses sitting on top of their patients isn't part of the treatment. Also those patients are on ventilators which force air into the lungs. None of the patients placed on their stomach are left to breathe unaided

 

I guess we should preprint death certificates with "cardiopulmonary arrest' as the cause of death and save the expense of an autopsy.

 

It was recommended to help keep patients off of ventilators because ventilators damage lungs.

 

A forensic pathologist being sued by the family of a Black man killed by police is testifying for Derek Chauvin's defense

Fowler's theory on Floyd's death — which he says was caused by a sudden heart event — matches the one he gave in the 2018 death of 19-year-old Anton Black, a Black man who died after being restrained and pinned to the ground by police.

Fowler, a former professor at Johns Hopkins University, served as Maryland's chief medical examiner until he resigned in 2019. He is being sued in federal court by Black's family.

"Two years before George Floyd died after being restrained and pinned down by police, 19- year-old Anton Black ... was killed by three white law enforcement officials and a white civilian in a chillingly similar manner on Maryland's Eastern Shore," the lawsuit viewed by Insider says.

A medical examiner's report that Fowler signed said that Black's death was an accident caused by his heart issues. Fowler also named bipolar disorder as a contributing factor, according to the lawsuit.

No officer was ever charged in Black's death. In the lawsuit, Black's family accuses Fowler of covering for the police department.

Fowler and his assistant "intentionally concealed police responsibility in causing Anton Black's painful death, and instead falsely ruled, on behalf of the State of Maryland, that a Black teenager who died through asphyxiation at the hands of four white men resulted from 'natural causes,' or 'accident' thereby improperly insulating police officials from responsibility for Anton's death," the lawsuit says.

https://www.insider.com/derek-chauvin-defense-expert-dr-david-fowler-lawsuit-2021-4

 

And the defense witnesses will make it clear that Floyd didn't die because of Chauvin's actions.

If I were the defense, I would replicate the scene with myself playing Floyd and then get up and walk away.

 

Nope. Just print another saint killed by murderous racist cops.

 

That would explain all the deaths in high school wrestling matches, I guess.

 

Non sequitur. There are always causal factors that lead to cardiopulmonary arrest that have to be listed on a death certificate if they are known. Regardless I'm just stating the facts which you have incorrect. I didn't invent the rules for filling out death certificates. If you have a problem with it take it up with the CDC.

 

You're right, I used the wrong words. I should have used the word CPAP. That doesn't effect the point i was making

 

What would that be?

 

Prosecution and defence expert witnesses all stated that everyone will eventually die from cardiopulmonary arrest

 

The point is that you wrote the nonsense post "One of the recommendations I heard for Covid treatment was sleep on your stomach to aid breathing"

 

Not true. Chauvin pulled him out.

 

It was done properly. It's not like having covid/sickle cell/heart disease/meth/fent adds nothing to the equation.