Differing types of men, Incel, MGTWO, PUA, Tradcon, MRA, Feminist Ally, Elite, Misogynist, Chauvinis

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by gorfias, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. gorfias

    gorfias Active Member

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    Differing types of men, Incel, MGTWO, PUA, Tradcon, MRA, Feminist Ally, Elite, Misogynist, Chauvinist

    I watched Jordan Peterson calling the MGTOW pathetic weasels. He took it back but while talking about the problem being with them, I wondered if maybe he was conflating them with Incels. VERY Briefly, this is kind of how I think male groups break down (knowing that there is likely some/lots of over-lap):

    Incels or Involuntary Celibates: want female approval but can’t get it. 2 issues appear to be that they truly are people that need a lot of self-improvement. Learn to groom. Make some money. Fashion. Hit the gym. We do have a problem socially. We have an artificially prolonging childhood. Our education system is broken, keeping the young in institutions till they’re so old before they’ve got a decent career going that they’ve missed their entire sexual peak.

    MGTOW: Men going their own way. They do not want female approval. They advise that society is so gynocentric as to make relationships with women at best, a functioning misery without solution. Until the social apocalypse requiring men to rebuild society, they advise that men never, ever let women vote again.

    PUA or Pick Up Artists: The opposite number of “The Rules” that taught women about how to get and keep a man. In this case, how to get consent from a woman for, from what I can tell, mostly sex. I have seen some PUAs also teaching of how to woo a woman to get a relationship.

    Tradcon, or Traditional Conservatives: arguably blue pilled, they see marriage as a socially constructive institution that men, even with sacrifices involved, are shameful if they do not engage in same. And they will use shaming language that do not seek marriage.

    MRA: Men’s Rights Activists. They see social, economic, political and cultural inequities in Western Society that are biased against men. They have been, in their parlance, been “red pilled”. They are woke to the roll of men in the West. They are exploitable, disposable utilities. They want to bring awareness to these issues and seek change and justice.

    Feminist Ally: They see social, political and economic bias in Western civilization against women and want to ally with women to make changes they believe will result in greater equity between the sexes.

    Elite: wealthy, handsome, powerful male. They can often have huge impacts upon how things are in society. At this time, they are disproportionately represented in our society over women (President is a man, Senate and Corporate heads disproportionately men, etc.) For this reason, many call Western society “Patriarchal” meaning, rule of the fathers. Alternatively, it is argued that they do not have an in group bias in favor of men but of themselves individually. They are in competition with non-elite men and would happily exploit and dispose of those men. See “Paths of Glory”.

    Misogynist: hates women. Reasons from rational to irrational too numerous to list.

    Chauvinist: Thinks they are simply better than women.

    Do you think I missed anything major? Your thoughts?
     
  2. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    How about the IDGASWYT....we deserve mention as well.
     
  3. gorfias

    gorfias Active Member

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    Sounds like it would not be gender specific.
     
  4. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    is there a point to this?
     
  5. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    Actually the I Don't Give A Shlt What You Think man is obviously specific to males.
     
  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Theres the asocials or 'omegas'. Emotionally independent, stoic men who only know how to be on their own, but still want to have and help raise kids so they can contribute to the future of humanity. The major problem being, of course, that there has to be a woman in that equation, who requires emotional codependence (some call it romance, but its really just drama) in exchange for her part in childrearing.

    But thats prolly not a 'major' group... in fact Im pretty sure its just me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 1:49 AM
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  7. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    It all breaks down to four things:

    Do I believe women owe me sex?
    Do I believe men are superior to women?
    Am I fearful of women and their power?
    Am I afraid of losing my power as a man?

    If you have answered any of the questions above, "yes", you still have some growing up and learning to do.

    If you said no to all the above, welcome to the 21st century.
     
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  8. gorfias

    gorfias Active Member

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    If it isn't a major group, maybe it should be. It does seem different from the others that I have heard of and matters.

    The MGTOW in particular speak a lot about something called Exogenysis. Supposedly the Japanese are perfecting it. Science can supposedly use any man's cell, turn it into an ovum, and then use sperm to fertilize it. Then grow it to full viability in an artificial womb. This would help not only single men but, particularly, professional women that are in their late 40s, early 50s. But you do state you would want a partner to assist in child rearing. Would it need to be a woman.

    At a minimum, I'm trying to get educated. modernpaladin for instance, brought up a whole new category I'd not heard of before: asocials or 'omegas'.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 10:00 AM
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a male who is unattractive to women for whatever reason, attempting to create an illusion of acceptability in his own mind in order to feel better about himself.
     
  10. gorfias

    gorfias Active Member

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    To you maybe. To me, it sounds like you are just applying shaming language to a man who knows what he wants, sounds like he lives in a Western "romance, marry for love" environment while he is super realistic and understands that child rearing can be a cooperative arrangement rather than a Disney cartoon.
     
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  11. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much.

    To be fair though, my equation of romance to mere drama borders on shaming as well, at least to the romantic ;)
     
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  12. gorfias

    gorfias Active Member

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    I would not write that such shaming is meant to pressure someone into action though. Maybe to accept that if they want a partnership with you, it is going to be a level headed exercise in cooperation. Still sounds like a bargain for exchange without coercion. But when, for instance, a tradcon says of MGTOW, for instance, that they are a disgrace that need to man up, they're telling them to stop acting as they do and start acting as the tradcon expect them to act. The shaming is meant to pressure people into acting against they see as being own best interest. I hope that as people understand what it is, they can better resist it and make better choices without submitting to pressure.
     
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  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member

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    The emotionally dependent tend to also have more 'severe' (for lack of a better word) emotions, both good and bad. They love more powerfully and hate more easily, experience joy to a far greater degree and yet also experience fear to a far greater degree. This results in far more effort required on their part to regulate their emotions (which is why they're emotionally dependent- they need outside help to regulate), which results in a stronger desire to mitigate the sources of negative emotions. One common source of negative emotions is interpersonal misunderstanding that results from a lack of social conformity. So they will go to great lengths to promote social conformity because its in their best interest for others to not cause interpersonal misunderstanding. Right or wrong, they're trying to prevent other people from causing them emotional pain. FTR, I don't think this justifies the coercive tactics they sometimes use to protect themselves, but I think its important to understand that their motives are purely self-preservative, instinctual, and may warrant a greater amount of tolerance from those of us with less 'severe' emotions who are more able to tolerate.

    But if we call it 'tolerating,' the highly emotional feel guilty (or shamed) for making us tolerate them, and being unable to regulate their guilt/shame causes them to lash out, then they feel guilty for lashing out, and a feedback of drama builds until someone can help them regulate or they have a meltdown...

    This is where the dynamic escapes my grasp, as I don't have the emotional frame of reference necessary to sympathize to the degree required for proper, sensitive reconciliation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 6:06 PM
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