Divisive vs. Unifying politics

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by IggySoda, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. IggySoda

    IggySoda Active Member

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    Which points should I address?
     
  2. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Two can play that game. I'm done until you can rationally argue my points without breaking up my complete thoughts. It changes the meaning of what I said.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  3. IggySoda

    IggySoda Active Member

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    Explain.

    We want to be a service economy. There's more money for almost no product. We want to be the ones who design, market and sell products, not manufacture them. We want to be creating and selling new technology. Our economy can't grow and won't survive as a manufacturing economy.

    Not if we're the ones driving technology. The only advantage we have over China is that they have to copy our technology. Thatcs the only reason we stay ahead of them. China is not a country of innovation. We are.

    Let China manufacture. We have priced our selves out of that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Which is what the democrats want us to do, stop playing and surrender everything to almighty government. The single biggest hypocrisy of the Democratic party is the insidious ntion that government is only good when people they like run it. Government is at best an evil made necessary by man's unwillingness to govern himself.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen a more complete misunderstanding of how economics work.
     
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  6. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Explain? I think it's self evident.

    You have things completely backwards. We don't want to be a service economy. Power and profit comes to those who create, not repair.

    Think about it. I can make a 1000 widgets an hour and if I make $2.00 from each after labor, etc, I generate $2,000 in profit per hour. I can then invest that in more stuff to manufacture, or invest it in developing new technologies.

    How much can I charge to repair that widget? $50/hr? $200/hr?

    The reason 3rd world countries are impoverished is because they don't make anything. They have to buy everything.

    How did the US become a super power? By buying goods from another country, or by manufacturing things and selling it to other countries?

    You are correct that we can't compete based on the cost of labor. $5 in Mexico is a lot different than $5 in the US.

    That is what logical and fair trade deals are for.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  7. IggySoda

    IggySoda Active Member

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    Correct me then.
     
  8. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    If China didn't manipulate their currency, then they would lose their competitive edge.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  9. IggySoda

    IggySoda Active Member

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    We still create. We just don't manufacture.

    Who do you think brings in more money? Apple, or the firm that assembles their phones?

    I think you're thinking in two different scopes. A manufacturer can make $2000 worth of widgets an hour after labor. This gives us no idea how much the individual laborer makes an hour.

    But an individual repairman with a widget repair shop making $50 an hour is probably doing better.

    The reason 3rd world countries are impoverished has to do with too many factors to deal with here.

    That's true. But only because at the time that was innovative. No other country could do it, or knew to do it. Now they do.

    We have outgrown the manufacturing economy. It won't allow us to grow. We need to continue to be innovators.


    I want you to imagine Bob. Bob is one of the best accountants in New York, and regularly deals with the books of very powerful people who pay him tens of thousands of dollars to do their taxes. In March, Bob’s wife comes to him and asks him to do her taxes. Bob says “Sorry, I really can’t. Why don’t you go to my friend Harry?” His wife says, “Why would I go to Harry, when my husband is one of the best accountants in the city?” Bob replies “Well, because your taxes are simple and straightforward. I really can’t do much better a job than Harry can.” His wife then asks, “But Harry will charge us $100 to do these taxes. Why would we throw our money away when you can do the same job for free?” Bob responds “Because for me to spend a couple of hours doing your taxes to save $100, is a couple of hours I’m not spending doing someone else’s taxes. In that time I’m losing hundreds of dollars. It may seem harsh, but economically it makes sense.”

    Follow?
     
  10. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Into a polyglot, diverse and divided people the better to control them.

    For the globalist, divisiveness is not a bug it is a feature.
     
  11. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. If you can't understand complete thoughts, then stop posting because you make no sense at all.

    Steve
     
  12. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Simple really there is almost no money to be made by working stiffs in a service economy. It takes little or no training to "Ask do you want fries with that? and punch the appropriate buttons on the electronic cash register. Even less for most other service jobs. On the other hand cnc programing and setup take a lot of training and pays very well indeed.
     
  13. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Donor

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    A repair man charging $50/hr has to pay for everything after that. At the end of the day, they might be making $20/hr, or less.

    If Bob were working at a manufacturing plant, Bob is paid based on what in effect, is a percent of each part he makes.

    As a manufacturer, I can amortize the cost of Bob across the entire production. If Bob worked for XYZ service company, how much of that $50/hr does he get paid? What's the maximum amount of money he could make a day?

    We have not outgrown the manufacturing economy, we have foolishly given that economy away.

    No successful Nation can survive by fixing somebody else's products.

    That has never happened, and never will. It about as basic a concept of economics as there can be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  14. IggySoda

    IggySoda Active Member

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    Double post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  15. Pants

    Pants Active Member

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    On the subject of how to run a country, I can't imagine there could ever be one unifying view. But the lengths to which each side will go to defend their own and attack the view of the other is a little shocking. Inability to see one's own side in reality means that there can be no compromise - much less unity! I don't even think the goals of each side are the same!
     
  16. IggySoda

    IggySoda Active Member

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    That's still a pretty decent income. Probably better than in a plant that charges minimum wage constructing widgets.

    Bob won't make much more than minimum wage assembling widgets unless it takes some skill. Someone in China can do the same job that takes no skill as Bob, for a fraction of the cost.

    Think freemarket principles. Why would we, as a nation whose workforce has access to education and can better or skills, continue doing jobs that require little or no skill? If you can pay a laborer $15/hr here to do a job that takes no skill, why not pay a laborer in Cambodia $1/hr to do the same job that takes no skill?

    We have 'wealthed' our way out of manufacturing.

    We still invent the products. We just don't manufacture them.


    Sure it has. I had my Samsung phone repaired here in the States a couple years ago.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  17. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is some truth to what you have written. At least in my view.

    Imagine what happens when people who don't even understand the basic principles of the US come here and demand the ideas and principles they brought with them be recognized.

    It's bad enough that we are going through a period when forces are turning citizens against each other to try and achieve a goal.
     
  18. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Donor

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    What plant pays workers minimum wage? I realize some do, but not all, so it's not a legitimate argument to make such in inference.

    You need to be a little more honest in your discussion if you want your views to be taken seriously.

    I've owned manufacturing companies for almost 40 years.

    A simple example. Let's say I can generate $20k in product per person, per shift. Out of that, perhaps $10k is in raw materials, packaging, etc. That leaves another $10k per person to cover labor and other costs. That means that employee is generating almost $1,250/hr IBIDIT.

    I can pay that worker the equivalent of $50/hr+, with benefits as a result, and still retain sufficient profit to grown and maintain the business.

    A service man is like any other hourly employee. Their income is limited by the hours of the day.

    You keep mentioning cell phones. How much is the cell phone manufacturer making? Can you answer that?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  19. Pants

    Pants Active Member

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    And on that we agree. I am all for immigration. I am all for people bringing the positive aspects of their cultures to offer diversity. But when a person moves to a country, they should do so fully accepting the laws of that land and not try to turn it into something new.
     
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  20. IggySoda

    IggySoda Active Member

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    That's because those manufacturing jobs went to other countries.

    Right. But I'm betting that you're not big enough where you've approached the labor bubble. And that's good.

    But when we talk about the auto industry, or computers, things that are mass produced by large companies, they need to keep production high and costs down. Thus they seek cheaper labor, whether that means outsourcing or automation.

    We can't compete with either.

    Yeah.

    We don't really know how much manufacturers of the iPhone are making, but it's less than Apple.
     

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