Do UFOs/ETs exist, are they real?

Nobody can just choose to remove a taboo. They develop slowly over time and can only be reduced in the same manner. The driver for that is primarily in the hands of the people promoting these ideas. There isn't really a taboo about UFOs specifically, it is a taboo about the leaps of assumption and unsupported conclusions that alien spacecraft are the sole hypothesis to be considered or even that it is definitively the answer.

Note that you make this error yourself below, conflating "UFO/ETs" as if they were the same thing. Saying UFO when you mean ETs can only add to that taboo about UFOs as a phenomena.

If we don't know the answer, all possible explanations can't have been exhausted by definition. Alien spacecraft only get put on the table if there is actual positive evidence supporting such a hypothesis. It is never the default go to, regardless of what else may have been excluded (legitimately or not).

To study what exactly? As I've mentioned previously, UFO really covers such a wide and diverse range of phenomena, event and claims that it shouldn't really be a singular field of study. That'd be like have a field of "living things" rather than lots of separate fields of biology studying different classes or plants and animals.

If you want to study the hypothesis that extraterrestrial beings are visiting Earth, I'm not actually convinced UFOs are the best focus, certainly not the sole focus, given their very nature of presenting limited and unclear evidence, which is why they remain unidentified in the first place.

I see no evidence of them actually changing the source video, it only explains what they're actually showing, particularly in the technical details of the display that most laymen will be unaware of. If you're accusing them of actually manipulating or misrepresenting the evidence, I think you have a moral responsibility to back that up. Hollow slander isn't going to make you arguments more appealing.

I also find it a little ironic that you expect others to watch videos that support your position but come up with excuses to avoid addressing any which challenge it.

I've seen them but how is that meant to help me? All I can see is a dot on a screen surrounded by all sorts of numbers and letters. I'm in no position to analyse or assess what it's actually showing. I strongly suspect you're in exactly the same position too. That is why assessment from people who do understand the technology being used and thus can better interpret what they could actually be showing is more useful. I'd be more than happy to see something from similar experts who can explain the technical details but reach a different conclusion but I'm nt capable of reaching a definitive conclusion myself and I'm not willing to blindly accept yours just because you really want to believe it.

OK, you're starting to get insulting now. You're the one who has claimed a definitive answer, that there are definitely aliens visiting Earth and the government is definitely covering it up. My position remains "I don't know either way". You clearly don't have that killer piece of definitive evidence or it would have been presented a long time ago. You've reached your position on the weight or the existing and well established partial evidence, speculation and assumption. You're perfectly entitled to that but you're not going to convince me to commit to any definitive conclusion without some actual new evidence.

 

This is all a side show, check out this document, read it, please

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/pdf/eisenhower_briefing.pdf

The pertinent paragraphs are as follows:

On 07 July, 1947, a secret operation was begun to assure
recovery of the wreckage of this object for scientific study.
During the course of this operation, aerial reconnaissance
discovered that four small human-like beings had apparently
ejected from the craft at some point before it exploded.
These had fallen to earth about two miles east of the wreckage
site. All four were dead and badly decomposed due to action
by predators and exposure to the elements during the approx-
imately one week time peiod which had elapsed before their
discovery. A special scientific team took charge of removing
these bodies for study. (See Attachment "C".) The wreckage
of the craft was also removed to several different locations.
(See Attachment "B".) Civilian and military witnesses in
the area were debrifed, and news reporters were given the
effective cover story that the object had been a misguided
weather research balloon.

A covert analytical effort organized by Gen. Twining and
Dr. Bush acting on the direct orders of the President, res-
ulted in a preliinary conscensus (19 September, 1947) that
the disco was most likely a short range reconnaissance craft.
This conclusion was based on for most part on the craft's
size and the apparent lack of any identifiable provisioning.
(See Attachment "D".) Asimilar analysis of the four dead
occupants was arranged by Dr. Bronk. It was the tentative
conclsuion of this group (30 November, 1947) that although
these creatures are human-like in appearance, the biological
and evolutionary processes responsible for their development
has apparently been quite different from those observed or
postulated in homo-sapiens. Dr. Bronk's team has suggested
the term "Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities", or "EBEs"
be adotpedas the standard term of reference for these
creature until such time as a more definitive designation
can be agreed upon.

Since it is virtually certain that these craft do not origin-
ate in any country on earth....

 

consider possibility that, after viewing a TON of presumptive evidence, the needle could move on this.

Remember, if I wake up in the morning and I see snow everywhere, I can PRESUME it snowed the night before during my sleep.


Now, my position is that the weight of ALL the evidence I do have, which we have not even begun to look at, will rise to that level.

It may, or may not, for you, but no one is saying "my way or the high way", all I'm saying is, let's take a look, noting that I will provide evidence of why there is no 'clear cut evidence' , nor will there ever be ( because aliens are operating clandestinely , have the ability to sweep regions they operate in and cloak their machines, switch off people and electronics, and I will provide evidence for that declaration, as well ).

Are you willing to do that, ie., consider the plethora of evidence that is available or not?

No one is saying 'my way or the highway'. YOU are saying that I'm saying that.

 

I can provide you with testimony of high ranking government officials who state that radar, plus visual, and confirmed the existence
of craft that defies everything we understand about physics:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a29091438/ufo-video-facts/

"The mystery craft pull off aerial maneuvers that are impossible for current, state-of-the-art aircraft to perform. According to Fravor, the USS Princeton told him it had been tracking objects for weeks that “appeared suddenly at 80,000 feet, and then hurtled toward the sea, eventually stopping at 20,000 feet and hovering. ..."

" Graves, in describing his 2014-15 incidents, said the objects were known for “showing up at 30,000 feet, 20,000 feet, even sea level. They could accelerate, slow down and then hit hypersonic speeds.”

Graves also mentioned another feature the UAPs seemed to have that his own fighter did not: much more energy than one would expect for a small craft.

“These things would be out there all day,” Graves said. “Keeping an aircraft in the air requires a significant amount of energy. With the speeds we observed, 12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”


Moreover, we have testimony from ranking military officials that there is a cover up:
https://siriusdisclosure.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/ExecutiveSummary-LRdocs.pdf
Master Sgt. Dan Morris: US Air Force, NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) Operative “I became part of a group that would investigate, gather the information, and in the beginning it was still under the Blue Book, Snowbird and different covert programs. I would go interview people who claimed they had seen something and try to convince them they hadn’t seen something or that they were hallucinating. Well, if that didn’t work, another team would come in and give all the threats. And threaten them and their family and so on and so forth. And they would be in charge of discrediting them, making them look foolish and so on and so forth. Now if that didn’t work, then there was another team that put an end to that problem, one way or another.”

I have TONS more, IF you have an open mind and will CONSIDER it.

NO ONE IS SAYING CONCLUSIVELY: "THESE ARE ETs"

i'm saying: let's keep an open mind and consider what evidence we do have, and consider that the government is covering up what they do have, and ETs have cloaking technology, are operating clandestinely ( I have evidence to that fact ) and have the ability to switch off electronics in a surveilled area they are operating in, preventing the kind of evidence you seem to believe is needed to convince you. However, I have TONS of 'presumptive' level evidence, pointing to all of these things, IF you would consider it.

So, the question is, will you consider it?

 

It has been said that the huge 'black triangle' otherwise known as the "TR3B" was the product of a US Black Project, similar to how the F 117 night hawk was, which wasn't revealed to the public years after it had been seen in flights around the world. We only know about this because of the testimony of Edgar Fouche , an air force avionics technician who worked at area 51, so do a YouTube search on him.

 

One reason if you wake to the sight of snow you can make the presumption you do, is you have had a huge amount of personal experiential evidence of snow and an understanding of snow and the scientific understanding of snow is deep, empirically verified and well understood to the point predict it from environmental preconditions and even manufacture it... it’s an apples and oranges analogy to the projecting UFO events as having intelligent extraterrestrial origins, and further, other than not being able to explain some UFO phenomena (why such observations are labeled UFOs), our current understanding of the laws of nature and critical thinking, suggest intelligent extraterrestrial origins are unlikely wishful thinking and fall into the same category as ghosts and supernatural powers. The anything is possible, so it can’t be discounted framing of explanatory narrative, is nothing more than than imaginative guesses that survive because they can’t be disproven anymore than proven.

 

Wendt does not make this assertion. He does not say 'of all the UFO sightings, none have been explained' or words to that affect. Please give the citation where YOU THINK he says this. I doubt it, sincerely, he's a respected scholar and a man of that caliber would never say such an obviously disprovable thing as that.

No one in Ufology has ever said that, and, in fact, they say that 95% of them, the vast majority of them, have been explained, especially the essays and lectures by Stanton Friedman.

 

Please read this entire rebuttal before you reply, and read the document presented, or at least the excerpt quoted below, before replying.

This is an excerpt from the Eisenhower Briefing Document, presented by Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoeter for a commission dedicated to the task which consists of high ranking military, political, and scientific personnel, ( as named in the document, on November 18, 1952) and the document is about the Roswell incident which occurred years earlier. During these years, they've had plenty of time to assess what it was they were looking at, noting that men of his caliber do NOT make wild assumptions let alone commit them to print in briefing documents to presidents.

http://www.majesticdocuments.com/pdf/eisenhower_briefing.pdf

On 07 July, 1947, a secret operation was begun to assure
recovery of the wreckage of this object for scientific study.
During the course of this operation, aerial reconnaissance
discovered that four small human-like beings had apparently
ejected from the craft at some point before it exploded.
These had fallen to earth about two miles east of the wreckage
site. All four were dead and badly decomposed due to action
by predators and exposure to the elements during the approx-
imately one week time period which had elapsed before their
discovery. A special scientific team took charge of removing
these bodies for study. (See Attachment "C".) The wreckage
of the craft was also removed to several different locations.
(See Attachment "B".) Civilian and military witnesses in
the area were debriefed, and news reporters were given the
effective cover story that the object had been a misguided
weather research balloon.
A covert analytical effort organized by Gen. Twining and
Dr. Bush acting on the direct orders of the President, res-
ulted in a preliminary consensus (19 September, 1947) that
the disco was most likely a short range reconnaissance craft.
This conclusion was based on for most part on the craft's
size and the apparent lack of any identifiable provisioning.
(See Attachment "D".) A similar analysis of the four dead
occupants was arranged by Dr. Bronk. It was the tentative
conclusion of this group (30 November, 1947) that although
these creatures are human-like in appearance, the biological
and evolutionary processes responsible for their development
has apparently been quite different from those observed or
postulated in homo-sapiens. Dr. Bronk's team has suggested
the term "Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities", or "EBEs"
be adopted as the standard term of reference for these
creature until such time as a more definitive designation
can be agreed upon.
Since it is virtually certain that these craft do not origin-
ate in any country on earth...

So, is Admiral Hillenkoeter engaging in 'wishful thinking' ?

The authenticity ratings and methods are given here, please review them
Here is the investigative team
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/team.php
Ratings and authentication methods
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/authentication.php
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/authenticity.php

 

We've already discussed this. It's a third-hand report of what (is said to have) happened, not first-hand evidence. It raises valid questions but doesn't provide definitive answers. I also noticed that it is also a totally irrelevant distraction from the comment you were replying to. We were discussing how the three things you listed could be achieved.

Then maybe you should come back when you've done that.

And if you haven't assessed all the evidence yourself, maybe you'd also like to reconsider this unconditional assertion;

You are seriously going to claim that the lack of evidence for aliens is evidence for clandestine aliens?

Time-code 0:46; "...there is a taboo on admitting in public that UFOs exist..."

Yes, but he explicitly excluded all the examples that have been identified (from around 2:35) and only wanted to discuss the ones which haven't (yet). That brings in the false implication that none of the remaining ones could have "mundane" explanations that we just haven't been able to identify or confirm for whatever reason.

 

The existence of the Majestic Documents has been known for a couple decades, as well as those claiming evidence of a government coverup. They have been referenced in several SyFi fictions like the X-Files. Aside from the various investigations of the documents that have shed light of the purported claims of ‘smoking gun evidence’, including the FBI (considering the suggestion of the document being top secret classifications under national security concerns it would fall to them to ascertain if national security was put at risk and by who, something prosecutable). The authenticity of the documents has been pretty thoroughly discredited by many, yet those that want to believe in a Government conspiracy theory, one that has been suggested that Marilyn Monroe had knowledge ... something suggested as a motive for her death, then they will continue to believe. It is not unlike another Government coverup conspiracy, JFK’s assassination in terms of discovered evidence, reported people connections, etc.
The biggest issue I see in the documents is the associated provenance, something that would be thoroughly trashed if presented in a court of law.
Is there wishful thinking... that is part of the purpose of pointing to the documents as some sort of proof.
What is the motive of the groups fielding the documents as some purported vetted evidence? Truth? Or Money? Examining the last page of the link you shared gives a hint. The fact that there is a conference catering to paying attendees is another. The sharing of the list of supposed experts supporting the documents as evidence, intended to impress by showing their credentials, but on examination review virtually all of them have financial interest in the books they have written to ‘expose’ the coverup is another clue.
What makes a good conspiracy theory live is the ability to counter critical thinking and analysis by always having a narrative for why the ‘real’ evidence, the truth, is kept from everybody. Hiding behind the supposed shield of a National Security interest that prevents sharing the ‘real’ evidence is tailor made to produce reasons why we can’t be let in on the ‘secret’. For instance, if evidence was actually collected in terms of bodies that could be DNA tested (assuming the would be DNA) and recovered parts of UFOs the ‘truth’ would be in the public sharing. But, according to conspiracists, the National Security justification and the coverup provides a perfect cover and excuse for why the ‘truth’ can be shared.
The whole narrative reminds me of Descartes’s evil demon analogy. We are supposed to believe the Government coverup is modeled as a misinformation program, but leaked documents are to be believed. Could the leaked documents not be part of the misinformation coverup strategy. When You are being deceived, how do you know you are not being deceived when told now... here’s... the real Truth?
As a scientist and a skeptical thinker, I place a high bar on evidence used to promote a narrative that purports to explain vaporous myth by those with motive that benefits if you believe.
So... who killed Kennedy?

 

Most of your 'reply' has nothing to do with the specific document under question, but it reads like you've prepared it advance for posts that present any of the majestic documents as evidence but failed to make any effort to tailor it to my post.

The devil is in the details. I find the information that debunks the debunkers far more compelling that that of the debunkers.

Did you ignore, completely, the references given for the document's authentication, or did you just blindly accept debunkers' claims on their face, without investigating it with a careful eye to details, yourself?

You do realize, attempts to trivialize an argument do not actually support an argument, right?

In fact, when I see such attempts I'm immediately alerted to someone whose argument is incapable of rising to a competent level.

Wide swath dismissals making no efforts to attack specifics don't account for much, in my book.]

Here is a more complete treatise, on the authentication protocols

https://majesticdocuments.waskosky.com/documents/document-authentication/

Direct witness to the Eisenhower Briefing Document
https://majesticdocuments.waskosky....sses/witnesses-validating-majestic-documents/

First hand witnesses
https://majesticdocuments.waskosky.com/investigations/witnesses/first-hand-witnesses/

To wit:
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/pdf/crain_clarksoninterview.pdf


This are given on the website from which document was obtained.

The authenticity ratings and methods are given here, please review them
Here is the investigative team
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/team.php
Ratings and authentication methods
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/authentication.php
http://www.majesticdocuments.com/documents/authenticity.php

The EBD was rated 80%-100% valid, and
This means that virtually all of the available investigation channels and ideas have been pursued and at each test the document has shown to be authentic. For example, tests in paper, ink, obscure content, handwriting, period typography and fonts, correct formatting, forensic linguistics (along with no sign of anachronisms), all indicate the highest level of authenticity. At this level, witnesses are present that have seen or read the document in an "official" capacity and will or have signed an affidavit to that effect.


Note that a rating of 80%-100% is as good as the ratings get, for this site, and, as such, would not be enough to deprive anyone of their liberty in a court of law, but we are not in a court of law, and no one's liberty is at stake, so raising that as in issue isn't necessarily a valid one for the rejection of the documents.

Okay, for the sake of argument, assume the document is valid, would would it's significance be?

 

Here is a documentary on the majestic documents

 

A number of documentaries have been made regarding the Majestic Documents since the ‘80’s and are structured similar to those that were generated generated by media sources catering to consumers of other psychic/supernatural pseudo science ‘revelatory’ narratives such as those proffered by
Erich Anton Paul von Däniken decades ago who sought to capitalize stretching on the narrative he was spinning of alien visitors in antiquity that were evidenced in the art of the ancients and postulating many of the feats performed by the ancients could only be explained by advanced technology they didn’t posses and therefore must have been the result of extraterrestrial sourced advanced technology. Sold great to the couch potatoes that consumed fantasy, but on examination was based on weaving a story using supposed evidence often taken out of archaeological context, cherry picked to match the pure spurious conjecture of his charlatan story making that was designed to simultaneously create what if’s for the suspended minds of his audience. Never mind that he never bothered to ask those that understood evidence in the context of the cultures or existing technologies of the times. Among my favorite examples of his fabricated evidence was his contention that the

The K’inich Janaab Pakal sarcophagus lid recovered from the Temple of Inscriptions at The Maya Ruins of Palenque, now displayed at Mexico’s National Museum of Archaeology, depicted what must be a representation of the sophisticated technology of an extraterrestrial spaceship... and further suggesting the Maya must have had ancient alien assistance in building their monumental cities. It didn’t matter that the scene was a well know and understood depiction of Maya mythos of the ruler ascending towards the world tree a procreation place of the Gods as recorded in the Maya religious Codex of Ceibal, something that can Maya linguists can read. The iconography is found at other Maya ruins, along with language glyphs explaining what is represented. This and many of his other claims have been thoroughly discredited....yet, there are those believers that say, but, but, but... and still TV shows are generated using the same claims and references as if they were fact.
Believe what you wish, it’s your right, but don’t expect me to buy the snake oil. Just to give you a bit more for weaving your thinking, did you know Eisenhower actually met with aliens a couple decades before the ‘Majestic documents were leaked’ and in the presence of eye witnesses, signed a secret treaty? Well, here is the documented evidence....
https://medium.com/@monadmantis/pre...tary-whistleblowers-come-forward-884f99b45644
I am sure the aliens required in the treaty that their existence was not to be officially revealed... thus the justification for the Government cover-up that has been ongoing all these years. Hmmm... I wonder if they required the return of their dead and their property... it would explain a few things, eh?

 

Michael Salla and Daniken are nuts.

Stick to the evidence provided, documentation protocols, and cut the fog machine crap.

 

I will try my best to remember to do a search for him soon but first I should give you the link to
something by the most interesting writer that I have ever ran into online....... and he just happens
to have been a poster to this forum:

Russia's Government talks about Release of E.T. data. (Part 2)

 

Ha... you are funny, your response is analogous to someone arguing the existence of God, saying stick to the Bible... the evidence is there.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/belief-in-aliens-may-be-a-religious-impulse/
As I indicated believe what you what it’s ok by me, but I’m not buying; I don’t chase fairy tails, ghosts, or sky Gods.
Let me know when the aliens come back to renegotiate the Treaty the signed with Eisenhower with Trump... a new Collusion story.

 

Go away.

 

Or... is it possible that even Richard Dawkins Ph. D. was at least somewhat influenced by the Von Daniken research?



Why Would Richard Dawkins Say That Aliens Created Life?


(There are some quotations by Chaim Henry Tejman M. D. at this blog that in my opinion address the question of how evolution may well have began):
www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

 

If you are somewhat bored you might like this related discussion:

Richard Dawkins Ph. D.: "Aliens Seeded Earth?"

The word "alien" or indeed.... "Alien" is subject to definition and I would submit that former Atheist Mellen Benedict may well have met the original "Alien" intelligence??????

Hint.......... if you happen to find yourself outside your body...... .and you see a being of light or (Being of Light).... and..... asking that being of light more and more and more and more good questions........ seems to be a highly productive approach......... to a near death experience.................. or for that matter.... perhaps even for a death experience?!?!


https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

If you have read "Stephen Hawking's Universe" you might be reminded of chapter thirteen that is entitled The Anthropic Principle and includes an Agnostic or Atheistic explanation for the Cyclic Model of the Universe.

 

Dawkins said it 's possible. he didn't declare it. Of course it's possible.

He stated that "if there is an 'intelligent designer' , it could be aliens".

It could be. He definitely didn't say it could be 'god" or some kind of 'supreme being'. In the natural world, there is not one of anything in any category, not one cat, not one dog, not one whale, nor one rock, nor one sun, etc., so if there is an intelligent designer, there are intelligent designers.

In other words, 'aliens'.

Moreover, the narrator buts in and declares that life couldn't happen by natural forces, which is not a true statement.

There is only one true statement:

No one knows the origins of life.

It is a mystery.

 

Good points.... but I do suspect that Chaim Henry Tejman M. D. may be closer to explaining the most probable and logical origin of Intelligence......
that I have ran into so far.....

http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/fund/fund1.htm

http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/fund/fund3.htm

http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/gender/g1.htm

http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/book/life1.htm

 

Nice, but there remains, only one true statement:

"No one knows with absolute certainty the origins of life".

You can speculate all you want, and that's nice for entertainment, but if you want a TRUE statement, defer to the above.

I'll offer something to the mix:



so, for life to exist, two factors must exist:

1. An infinite amount of time.

2. That life is possible.


We know 1, is true. We know 2 is true.

Therefore,

Given infinity, all that is possible, is inevitable.


Therefore: life.


Therefore, we know time is infinite.

We know life is possible.

Therefore, life is inevitable.


Life exists because, given an infinite amount of time, it's inevitable.

Remember, all numbers, compared it infinity, are infinitesimally small

Therefore, the logic that life seems impossible because of the astronomical factors which must be in place for life to exist, is not a valid point.

Why? Because, compared to infinity, there is no such thing as an astronomical number.

So, if God is anything, it's nothing more than the abstract concept called infinity.

That's all it is. It's not an 'intelligent designer'. It's infinite patience.

 

Exactly!!!!

String Theory seems to me to indicate at least eleven dimensions of space and time at least in order to mathematically unify electromagnetism, gravity, weak and strong nuclear force into one, (or perhaps two)... truly fundamental forms of energy, (perhaps Super Strings and Super Waves)?


CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

Since our human brains are at least something like a computer..... it is difficult to imagine some sort of computer like "Intelligence" NOT beginning and evolving assuming infinite time in the past with truly fundamental energies existing for something like infinite time in the past.


Quantum Theory Supports Near-Death Experiences

 

'

I think zero point is the best

And this is correct;

See, I believe in reincarnation, and the soul.

Memory is stored on an astral plane, which follows us from life to life.

This explains the phenomenon of the child prodigy, who, at a very early age, starts playing an instrument without having learned anything.

If a soul was a musician in a past life, and manages to carry the memory of the skill forward, viola, child prodigy.

However, for most people, a new life closes the curtains on past lives, so we don't remember them, and that nature does this is a blessing, because if you could remember your past lives, the emotion, loss, memories, of lives past, would be overbearing, it might crush you.