Do you feel it's difficult to provide a modest middle class life today?

Do you feel it's difficult for a typical person to provide for themselves a modest middle class standard of living today?

How difficult is that, in your view?

Would you say it's any different for the younger generation today, who haven't yet established themselves in a career or own a home, or maybe you have no idea?

 

Bleedin working classes getting in the way!

 

Comparing wages now to 30 years ago is meaningless without taking into account inflation and rising prices for things like rent.

Sometimes I think it would be kind of nice if there wasn't any inflation at all.
That way it would be much easier to see any actual change.

 

Yup.

 

When will you blame foreigners and ethnic minorities?

 

Compensation versus productivity is what that graph deals with. It's pretty straight forward.

 

Now, the system requires scape goats.

 

True! But I love the "let's focus on the middle classes" as a means to manipulate the petty left wing. Beautifully simple frameworking attempt at promoting nostalgia, whilst ignoring that nostalgic outcome was itself based on inequality.

 

My opinions on other things have nothing to do with my opinions, or intentions, in this thread. Well, I won't say absolutely nothing, because your opinions on one thing always can have some effect on your opinions about other subject matter.
Why can't you just take the question in the OP at face value?

Seems you were so suspect you felt you had to try to "beat me to the chase", before anyone even brought it up.

You were quite rude in another thread too: Employment for young American workers remains low

Are you so defensive about living standards going bad? Come on, this used to be the left's poinçonner.

 

Of course they do. You've chosen deliberately to celebrate a middle class nostalgia. You didn't refer, for example, to the productivity gap suffered by all of the working classes.

 

So I assume you are faulting me for apparent lack of concern & omission of mention for the lower classes here?

Or do you just find my concern for the middle class too bourgeoisie?

 

Nope. I'm noting that you deliberately chose reference to the middle classes (for your own reasons), even though it makes no logical sense (given the real problem is the productivity gap)

 

Hmm, well, even if you have higher per capita income, that may not necessarily translate into higher living standards if the population increases. Higher population densitities in the locations where the jobs are are going to translate into scarce housing and higher housing costs. Even if your country has plenty of space, doesn't matter. Only matters the places where the jobs are.

If we want to be increasing living standards, maybe we should be focusing on spreading out where the money is spent, trying to lead to job generation in areas with lower living costs, where that money can stretch farther.
Just a thought.

 

Please define 'middle class standard of living'...

 

You'd have to go with occupational class information, then you'd have to make adjustments for perceived reductions in earnings power. I'd probably use some form of index that takes into account responses to subjective income questions like 'how difficult is it to make ends meet?'. If I could be bothered that is! Never been interested in the false 'those poor middle classes' efforts at nostaglia.

 

In general, I don't believe its any harder today than it was "yesterday". But people have changed, there are more lazy people today, particularly people under 30 years old, people who expect things to be given to them.

The worst are the people who voluntarily went to a university they could not afford, knowing they would end up with a load of debt which they committed themselves to paying, yet wasted their time in the university and ended up living in mommies spare room - and now want all the honest hard working people to pay off their debt.

 

Why do you think that's the case then? Why do you think Americans are more feckless?

 

I asked the question because most people talk about this stuff without clearly and concisely defining the issue. I suspect if we ask 10 people to define 'middle class' we will get 11-12 answers.

I have no use for labels because they are abused. I don't care what economic group I might be in only caring if I'm finding what I desire in life. When we have a median wage of $35K using only wages we might guess middle class to mean $20K to $50K. But others might say it's $50K to $150K...so using wages to define middle class makes no sense. A person earning $100K trying to live in San Francisco, in which it requires a minimum of $250K income to buy the cheapest house, or average rent is $4000/month, will this person feel middle class or something lower?

Labels never solve any problems...

 

Those occupational classifications are pretty much set in stone. While we see changes over time reflecting changes in the characteristics of the economy, coherent definitions are available for empirical investigation.

I'm all for subjective labels. The economist, for example, would deem me to be upper middle class. However, I'm working class and ain't changing for no elbow-patched sociologist!

 

1) liberals killed religion
2) liberals shipped jobs off shore
3) liberals imported illegals to drive down wages and suggest Americans are too good for work
4) family and friends have enough money nowadays to support layabouts so often do.
5) liberals attack commerce thus discouraging many from valuing work

 

The middle classes aren't paying rent.

 

There is absolute equality in America, as far as I'm aware. Everyone has exactly the same access to education etc.

Can you point to the areas of inequality you are referring to?

 

I would have said that middle class is minimum $100k, given a median house price of $500k. I would add further qualifiers such as high equity home ownership, little to no debt, and ability to pay cash for 'medium' ticket items like appliances, car repairs, home maintenance, and holidays.

 

create and cripple millions of dirt poor single mothers with idiotic, liberal, hip hop, welfare programs and you have inequality and low mobility.