Do you find meaning in Existentialism?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Felicity, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol....

    If you don't get it...NVM.:banana:
     
  2. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    The whole point about existentialism is that you have to give your life your own meaning.
     
  3. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for ruining it Junobet...sense of humor required in my reality. ;)
     
  4. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Jeez Felicity I thought it was going to be all serious. I like Kierkegaard, poor tortured soul he was. Anyway, I share the same birthday with him (5th May) and Karl Marx (also 5th May) so perhaps us cinco de mayo types are tuned in with each other?
     
  5. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We can try to talk existentialism, but it's a funny philosophy because by "definition" it is different for everyone--you can't really claim to be an existentialist because EVERYONE is existentialist by virtue of the fact he exists. It's like saying we're all special....but that means therefore, no one is special.

    I find it funny.
     
  6. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    Sorry for still lacking the necessary humour to see the joke.

    So you've got 6 children. Are they all the same or is each of them a unique and special individuum?
     
  7. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you trying to "apply" existentialism?
     
  8. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apparently you don't appreciate the Absurdist aspect of Existentialist thought.
     
  9. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    Just trying to make you think about your reasoning. So do you agree that all of us are special and unique?

    I can see why some existentialists came to the conclusion that the world/our existence/faith is absurd, but I can’t see what should be funny about that. Actually I find it rather depressing in many ways.
     
  10. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    of course!


    I guess it really depends on how you look at it. Although I find a lot of ideas of the existentialist perspectives reasonable and even logical, a lot of it is nonsense, IMO. And...ironically, an existentialist would have to allow my perspective to be correct....for me anyway.

    There's an inherent contradiction in the Existentialist perspective, it claims pure relativism, but claims it is absolutely true. Ergo, by logical reasoning, since the premise can be proved to contradict itself, the opposite is necessarily true (of the relativist aspect of Existentialism).

    I find that funny.
     
  11. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    What exactly is it that you find nonsense?
    You need to get more specific, not all existentialists are relativists and I can’t think of any existentialist claiming absolute truth for his view of the world (even though that might well be due to my lack of knowledge). But to stay with your broad example: it may well be totalitarian to totally oppose totalitarianism, but is it really?
     
  12. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By definition all existentialists are relativists.





    The "absolute" claimed by all existentialists is relativism.--That is self contradictory.
    That's not a valid comparison--an opinion on totalitarianism is not totalitarian in itself.

    Self contradiction.
     
  13. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    You know the old line by Socrates about the unexamined life? That's my starting point for existentialism.
     
  14. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well....that's one of the things I DO like about existentialism.

    Also--I LOVE existentialist literature.
     
  15. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I saw a tv version of "No Exit"/"In Camera" (the tv version was given the "In Camera" title) and I was totally intrigued. That was when I was a fairly young kid because I remember it was on the BBC. At about the same time I saw, again on the BBC, "Waiting for Godot".

    I should sue the BBC :smile:
     
  16. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I really like Camus' "The Stranger."
     
  17. Vicariously I

    Vicariously I Well-Known Member

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    Does God give your life meaning or do you?

    If you chose the former than no an existentialist would not have to nor would he be able to allow your perspective.

    Show me where existentialism claims pure relativism. No not your opinion on why it does show me where existentialism claims pure relativism.
     
  18. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We're discussing philosophy--did you want to discuss theology? You're positing a false dichotomy. Nice bait, though...


    Define existentialism. Is not any definition of existentialism dependent on the individual perspective and the development of meaning from that perspective? THAT is "relative" by definition.
     
  19. Vicariously I

    Vicariously I Well-Known Member

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    This thread seems to be a biased attack on something you feel threatened by on some level. The definition of existentialism is an obvious one and yet you are on here trying to convolute it for the sake of your false position.

    First off if God gives your life meaning existentialism is no way shape or form a part of your life BY DEFINITION.

    Secondly what about moral objectivism? Moral subjectivism? Your talking about philosophy and yet you are speaking in absolutes.

    Existentialism: a chiefly 20th century philosophical movement embracing diverse doctrines but centering on analysis of individual existence in an unfathomable universe and the plight of the individual who must assume ultimate responsibility for acts of free will without any certain knowledge of what is right or wrong or good or bad

    Existentialism is a term applied to the work of a number of late 19th- and 20th-century philosophers who, despite profound doctrinal differences,[1][2][3] shared the belief that philosophical thinking begins with the human subject—not merely the thinking subject, but the acting, feeling, living human individual.[4] In existentialism, the individual's starting point is characterized by what has been called "the existential attitude", or a sense of disorientation and confusion in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world.[5] Many existentialists have also regarded traditional systematic or academic philosophies, in both style and content, as too abstract and remote from concrete human experience.[6][7]

    Søren Kierkegaard is generally considered to have been the first existentialist philosopher.[8][9][10] He proposed that each individual—not society or religion—is solely responsible for giving meaning to life and living it passionately and sincerely ("authentically").[11][12] Existentialism became popular in the years following World War II, and strongly influenced many disciplines besides philosophy, including theology, drama, art, literature, and psychology.[13]

    Scholars have remarked generally that many self-described "existentialist" philosophers have views that differ profoundly from one another's.[3][8][14]
     
  20. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your bias is reading into it. Because I find fault with one aspect of existentialism does not mean I do not find much one can gain from contemplating the philosophies. You're the one being dogmatic here, Vicariously.

    I actually know something about this. I don't need to "Google" it. I've actually read stuff, and discussed stuff in academies of higher learning...I actually teach a bit of it... And the fact is, that you are right--the definition of Existentialism IS "obvious.: And it, by definition, MUST be relative. :roll:

    Again--we're not talking theology, but frankly, you're patently wrong. The experience of life (in theology) and the individual's choices made freely in that life, absolutely are congruent with a significant part of existential thought. There are parts that are contrary--such as the premise that freedom necessitates no God (btw--that's only in some existentialist views--not all).


    What do you think a premise is? In the syllogism of a potential answer, it is an absolute assumption that precedes the following logical reasoning. And, it is the premise in Existentialism that all is relative that is the false premise I take issue with. It self-contradicts, and therefore is necessarily false. That doesn't mean there's not good stuff to garner from Existentialist thought--it's just not ALL TRUTH. :roll:
     
  21. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    Which definition?



    Really? What’s absolute and what’s the kind of relativism you mean?
    And is it as self contradictory as you claiming that all of us are special while you also claimed that that means no one is special?
    (Which is not that self contradictory by the way: it could just mean that one universal aspect we have in common is being special. Specialness is just one trait among many, thus having universal traits like being special or being carbon-based life-forms does not necessarily affect our specialness. )

    So how come you seem to think that an opinion on “the absolute” is absolute in itself?

    Weird, I thought as a fellow Christian you should be accustomed to paradoxes. Our faith is full of them. And even though I’m probably a terribly rationalist Christian, that’s part of its appeal to me.

    Now what I have a problem with in existentialism is Sartre’s claim that existence precedes essence. That may be so, but how do we know? It may well be that it’s the other way around and we’ve just forgotten about our essence, doomed to spend our life on trying to find out what it may be. Also from a poststructuralist point of view, I wouldn't be so sure that it's possible to be 'authentic'. Authentic with what?
     
  22. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By the way, Vicariously, THIS part of your linked to "definition" demonstrates that Existential philosophy is a "relative" philosophy:

    THAT is relativism.
     
  23. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All of them, it is an underlying premise of the individual creating meaning. It exists in every definition.



    That is the issue! You get it, but you don't know it, yet. That is the contradiction that underlies Existentialism. If you read where I said that, I was pointing to the flaw in Existentialism--not claiming it was true. That was an example.

    All analogies limp :roll:


    I'm talking Philosophy for the ba-jillionth time. :roll: Read Kant if you want en explanation of the difference between the scientific exploration of the unknown and unknowable, and faith--he's thick, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't. I didn't say that. A Philosophy is a little different than a mere "opinion."
     
  24. junobet

    junobet New Member

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    So you think the claim we can only perceive the world subjectively automatically results in relativism?

    Give me a better one then, so that I may understand.



    Sorry, but to me talking philosophy and talking theology go hand in hand. Existentialists like Kierkegaard or Tillich and even Sartre make theological claims.
     
  25. Yosh Shmenge

    Yosh Shmenge New Member

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    I thought the whole point was that life had no inherent meaning.
     

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