Do you have irreconcilable political differences with your family members?

Discussion in 'Member Casual Chat' started by CCitizen, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Wise old bloke.
     
  2. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Do you have irreconcilable political differences with your family members?
    Irreconcilable differences can't be resolved. That's why they are called "irreconcilable".
     
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  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Excellent post through and through and pretty much mirrors my own views.

    It's funny because around here I get called all sorts of things. It's always funny to me when I'm posting in a thread and somebody responds to me with "You Liberals always......" or "You Cons always...." Depending on the topic I tend to get called "something" as if my view on a particular individual topic somehow defines my entire ideology overall.

    That's why topics like these make me laugh inside. How exactly could my family members have any sort of animosity towards my ideology when nobody can even label me as a particular ideology? There is this warped view of society nowadays that if you support a particular person or party then you MUST be this and this and this. Throughout this very thread there are folks saying things like well if you voted for Trump then you must be a certain type of person. Or if you support Bernie then you must be a certain type of person. Really?

    Some of the most fun I have around here is when engaging in debate with someone who knows I voted for Trump then watch them form an entire argument against me based on various things they THINK I believe and/or support by default. Then I turn around and actually agree with everything they said in regards to their beliefs and watch them get completely confused lol. My family tries to do that all the time and it frustrates them to no end that they can't "call me" something, especially the more militant family members. They don't know what I am, they just know I'm not like them, but in regards to some things I am like them, but in regards to others I'm not, and that irritates the crap out of them.

    Labels are indeed applied by other folks, and they are usually wrong.
     
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  4. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. I find humor in what people jump to in their conclusions of me. When asked where I was raised by a Brit and they hear South Belfast, off Fall Road, there is an instant change in their demeanor...all follow-on conversation is like they are walking on eggs. When I meet someone new in America and they hear my accent, invariably they will begin to guess my country of origin, guessing Ireland, Scotland, Britain, and sometimes Australia (Americans aren’t always the best with accents), then they get confused when they hear I was born in the US (raised in Northern Ireland). Then, when asked where in Ireland and they hear Belfast, I will then get the inevitable questions arising from that... is the fighting still going on? Are you Catholic or Protestant? When I say, raised Catholic (not practicing), invariably, the follow on question; are you IRA. I have taken on being asked, saying, ‘from Texas’ and pointing to the Western Style Boots I tend to wear, and many going ‘really?’ as if they are taking my facetious answer seriously.
    When I criticize a Democrat’s, I get pegged for a Republican. When I criticize a Republican, I somehow become a Democrat. When back in Ireland, I am often expected to defend the current President, whoever that might be and on a policy I might or might not support. If I defend someone’s right to their opinion, I must, of course agree with them. All pretty humorous to me... and while I don’t like generalities, I can’t say I am not tempted to the opinion that people seem to form their opinions from what they hear from others without a critical thought to be had. Ok, then.
     
  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Supporting trump means supporting a man who calls for extreme torture, mass murder, division, violence, and authoritarianism.

    That tells me everything I need to know about you.

    Trumpers want to pretend this is complicated or somehow compares to something other presidents have done. It isn't complicated. It is very simple. You support a monster - the very thing we have fought wars to defeat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
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  6. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Uh huh, and in the eyes of millions of Americans if you support any of the Democrat Candidates that means supporting the murder of human babies under the guise of "women's choice", socialism, illegal immigrants over the safety of fellow Americans, theft of fellow Americans money, and Unconstitutional treason.

    That tells them everything they need to know about you. Liberals try to pretend it's complicated or somehow pretend that they are morally correct and are pushing for these things based on morality, safety, and fairness. It isn't complicated, it's very simple. You support murder and treason and foreigners over your fellow Americans. The very things we have fought wars to defeat.

    Are those things actually true about you? Probably not in the actual literal way I worded it but as with anything folks tend to reword phrases in order to make them sound worse than they are.

    Anybody can paint anybody as a monster or anything else they wish if they word things a certain way. It's a common tactic when used in debate from official Presidential debates to folks on this forum.

    The reality is that most folks are normal people who live normal lives and would more than likely get along just fine with one another regardless of ideology if we as a society stopped focusing primarily on that alone. But we have come to the point where we allow one's political ideology to define them as a person and we allow ourselves to pick and choose who we will even interact with based on that alone.

    It's not the government that is diving us, it's we who are diving us by allowing something as trivial as who you support politically to completely override EVERYTHING ELSE about a person. Folks can have plenty in common, get along just fine, even become friends and establish bonds. But let it come out that you are a Bernie supporter and that by itself, not your character or your personality, will end the relationship immediately because supporting that guy will give me all I need to know about what type of person you are.

    Um...no. I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't allow your political ideology that I happen to disagree with to override everything else about you that I like. That is childish. Fortunately for my friends and family of whom come from a variety of ideologies ranging from die hard Christian Baptists to Progressives to Lesbian feminists to fellow Trump supporters, we are mature enough to not allow our differences in political, social, or religious ideology to keep us from being friends or family.

    I feel sorry for those who choose otherwise. But yeah it's all the governments fault for diving us, we the people have nothing to do with it as clearly demonstrated by this entire thread....
     
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  7. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I agree. About a decade ago, I and my closest friend (my political opposite) accompanied me to Ireland (his first trip there) where I played tour guide. As we were driving south from Sligo toward Galway using an indirect route via winding county backroads, I made the comment that many people found our friendship strange because of our ideological differences and our frequent debates. He responded saying, ‘you and I agree on 98% of things including what is important in life. We tend to argue about the 2% as sport over a drink, a sport most people can’t handle without descending into demeaning and demonizing each other.’ We might joke that each thinks the other crazy, but in reality we hold each other in high esteem. I have often drawn a comparison with the friendship between Ginsburg and Scalia.
    I have often observed one of the differences between American culture (as diverse as it is) and Irish culture with a simple comparison of someone entering a nearly empty pub, but for one other person sitting at the bar; in America a new arrival will sit at the bar, leaving distance between them and the other, but, more often than not, in Ireland a new arrival will sit next to the other in the pub, introduce themself, and then the two will begin a conversation touching on many subjects in a sort of search (my characterization) for something in common, something shared, and once found will often build a multi drink conversation around what is common. Close friendship can begin that way. There, it seems people look to find something giving a foundation for friendship. In the US, it seems to me, many look for reasons to reject another. I prefer company of those that are real and have other ways of looking at the world rather than company that is a mirror of me; I get more value from that, learn, and figure if I can’t defend my views in logical debate against all opposition, I might not be on solid ground.
    My friend, I mentioned, and I have a small network of close friends. Years ago, He and I started an annual dinner where we invite all our closest friend and he and I pick up the entire tab. A couple years ago, I did a toast, ‘A toast to all of us. We are the most function difunctional group of friends. We all share attributes of absolute honesty, integrity, and honor. And, have the ability, in our diversity to engage each other in passionate debate, say what we think, but never walk away in with an anger that would prevent any one of us from being ‘there’ for another.
    I have one friend who has a teenage daughter with Asperger’s. Many, including her parents, have difficulty engaging her in conversation because she doesn’t pick up on the subtle social clues that guide many conversations, where people temper what they say. As a result, she says what she’s thinking, brutally honest and unfiltered, which is scary and unsettling to most. When I see her on occasion, she seems to like talking to me, and for my part, I find conversation with her refreshing because of her brutal honesty and unfiltered engagement with me... probably, the most honest, real person I have ever met. When engaging her, She listens, ponders carefully on the substance, and delivers an emotionless, egoless response without the socially diplomatic choices of words that pervade much of conversation. Sometimes her responses and observations give me pause to think about my own view.
    Differences in opinion...makes life interesting to me.
     
  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Well said. And you're absolutely right ... it says nothing at all about your core values, moral fibre, or character.

    I would submit that those unable to sustain relationships across the political spectrum, have issues with their own character.
     
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  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's not what I said. I said words are cheap and easy, so are no measure of good character.

    Once again, the only measure of character is action (words being cheap and easy).
     
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  10. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Trump does have many faults. But Modern Left has much much worse faults -- they support Discrimination and Totalitarian Censorship.
     
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  11. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    More wisdom. And true of those who've reached a point in life (either via time or good choices) where overt validation is not needed.
     
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant. My favourite post in this thread so far.

    I'm the same. I literally don't give a flying f about your politics, and would actually hate it if everyone I know voted the same. If you like wilderness, dogs, gardening, music, good coffee, humour, etc, and you're not flakey or unstable, I'll take you! I can think of a couple of close friends who, 20 years on, I still have no idea of their politics. They seem Lefty, but they're ardent capitalists so anything is possible.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
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  13. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    This is just mental laziness. Their cryptonite is the genuine liberal.

    PS: I get called all manner of things here, also.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Bingo. It's quite infantile and lazy.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Right. So that lifetime of good character is negated on just that (and no doubt a life of dissolute crap will be excused for Trump Hatred).

    What a generous and mature adult human you are :roll:
     
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  16. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    So befriending a neoNazi/Klansman wouldn't be a problem. Right?
     
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  17. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Well seeing as how I'm a minority I would have to guess no seeing how they would probably not even talk to me.

    There are limits obviously, nothing is absolute. The main difference here is that I don't in fact deal in absolutes while many others actually do, as being openly displayed here in this thread.

    I have, however, befriended an actual self proclaimed racist before. I had no idea he was a racist, we were co-workers for many years so we were forced to interact with one another. After getting to know him and him getting to know me he told me about how he usually feels about black folks. In his own words "I'll tell you something man, never in my life did I ever think I'd be sitting here knocking back beers with a black dude, to be honest with you I don't really like your people very much I only tolerate ya'll because I have to for work".

    This was like a year after us having become friends. Turns out he actually wasn't a racist in the literal sense, he was/is prejudice. He doesn't like "black culture", the whole hip hop urban sort of thing. And since he absolutely refused to even so much as speak to black people he never realized that we are all in fact not actually like that. I'm closer to his redneck culture than I am to his preconceived notion of what he thought "black people" acted like. And because of that he befriended me after that lightbulb went off in his head. Whatever, he's a good friend of mine, even him coming out and openly telling me that he thinks he's a racist isn't enough to override everything else about him. We got along just fine for a year before he ever even mentioned that to me and if he hadn't I would have never known...And it turns out he's not even actually the racist he thought he was he's just prejudiced against a particular subculture that happens to be comprised mostly of a particular race. If he were an actual racist then he obviously wouldn't like me.

    But if a Klansman or a neo Nazi wanted to actually talk to me I'd talk to them. Whatever, lets have a beer and lets hear why you hate me for my skin color and see if we can work this out. Dealing with literal racists is an extreme version of the actual problem that a lot of folks in society have. Tunnel vision. They have their own beliefs and they will be damned if they even look left or right and so much as talk to anybody who doesn't share their same beliefs. In doing that we isolate ourselves in our own little bubbles of division completely ignorant of the fact that if we just got to know one another it turns out that "those other people", regardless of who they are, might not actually be that bad.
     
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  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    It literally wouldn't, if they were otherwise a kind and decent individual. And no, that's not a mutually exclusive proposition. Suggesting it would be is like suggesting all Christians are wholesome.
     
  19. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    In 1919, Klansman or a WKKK lady could be respectable.

    In 2019, it is acceptable for Progressives to make very negative generalizations for instance about men or about Conservatives. In 2019, Progressives became much more like KKK.

    And yet, I agree with Liberals on most Economic issues. I believe that the Second Amendment is a democide -- 572,000 people died in 1999-2016. I believe in Welfare for all people. Sadly some Conservatives want to abandon people with Disability.

    Thus, I have no friends.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
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  20. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    And still, people we live with are real people. We always have to compromise.

    People online are not as real. But I am not real to them as well.

    All of us have more then one dimension. I am a person with a personality -- I am not a set of Political or Social ideas.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
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  21. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Everybody does, soldiers especially.
    What if it's a Black Panther who hates whitey...
    ...and after all that he still does? Is he still friend material?
     
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  22. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    if bernie sanders was President and passed an assault weapons ban, would you surrender your AR-15 to lawful government force?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  23. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I have family members who are full on board with that Black Lives Matter thing, not necessarily akin to Black Panthers but close enough. Do the Black Panthers even still exist? And yes they are still my family, and I see interact with them during family reunions even though I feel their BLM nonsense is disgusting. I also have family members who are way closer to being actual racists against white people than I am anywhere near comfortable with. A member of my family married a white woman and quite a few members of the family had a huge problem with that. And I have a huge problem with them for having a problem with that. But they are still family with whom I speak and interact nonetheless.

    If an actual racist Klan member decides to talk to me and still decides he hates me for my skin color afterwards then of course he is not friend material. That's a call he is making, I'm not making that. I'll extend my hand to virtually anybody regardless of what you believe religiously, socially, or politically in an effort to find common interests between us to hopefully establish a relationship. If you choose to pull your hand away then there's nothing I can actually do about that.

    I can't force anybody to like me...but I will indeed give pretty much anyone the opportunity to do so. If they choose not to then that's on them, not me.
     
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  24. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    How is this relevant to the topic of this thread?
     
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  25. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I have never held a gun. In my opinion, the Second Amendment is a Democide -- 572,000 people died in USA 1999-2016 by firearms.
     

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