Yet no reference saying who they are, or the actual results. I think what you mean to say is that you do not appreciate my comments here, because I am asking people to think and do research, not just accept anything told to them without facts. And random pseudoscience blogs and the like that buy into every single bit of nonsense are not reputable. No more than the CT blogs that believe in everything from vapor trails and JFK conspiracies to the various Birther and Truther garbage sites. Still waiting on some kind of reputable and verifiable reference from you to prove your claims.
Interestingly, I agree with your post. I am not in a place where I can do the research right now, but over the next few days, I'll try.
You have to understand, in things like this I am a strong believer in the philosophy of a 14th century Franciscan Friar. William of Ockham in simple terms stated that if all things are equal, the simplest solution is almost always the correct one. And I use that in almost all analysis of things I discover. Is there some kind of massive conspiracy involved, or not? And when it comes to pseudoscience and conspiracies, the theories and claims almost always slit their own wrists on that razor. They become increasingly contradictory and convoluted, and it becomes impossible to believe them unless you first accept that everything is a lie, and everything is a conspiracy. We have already had people who created the crop circles admit they did it, described how they did it, and why. We even have commercial companies that make crop circles for advertising purposes. Yet, for some reason people still believe that they are made by aliens. And that the hoaxers are part of some giant conspiracy to "hide the truth". The same with this. Do we believe the scientists, anthropologists and others who have studied these things for decades? Or blogs written in basements which make up their claims, mostly based on the writings of a conman? Secret DNA studies that were smuggled out and conducted in secret labs, why? I also consider myself the "ultimate skeptic". I reject all pseudoscience and conspiracies. Do not feel picked out, I find them all silly. And generally consider those who obsess over them to be mentally ill. And I see it as the only form of mental illness where those who suffer from it try to spread that illness to others.\
Sorry for this little nitpick, but didn't Einstien or someone say that things should be made as simple as possible, but not more so. In other words, Don't simplify so much that the thing becomes wrong???
Aliens living on other planets in regions of unknown space is very possible. - by unknown space; I refer to the parts of space where light hasn't even reached us yet. Space from our p.o.v we cannot possibly observe, the unknown space; saying space is big is an understatement. Have they the ability to see us and have we the ability to see them? Maybe. https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/scienc...y-making-contact-extraterrestrials-ncna994996 But such an alien would have to be a lot closer within the distances of known space for this whole exploration method reliant on the laws of physics to work. Laws of physics like any other should be able to be rewritten. I want to bend space and time if I have to and travel faster than light, because that would be cool.
First, I want to state that I found myself in much agreement with your post. Skepticism is a positive thing in moderation. Only when it becomes extreme enough to exclude consideration of valid evidence, does it become a liability. I practice skepticism myself--always have--but when the evidence is convincing, I go with the evidence. But I wanted you to know, I respect your skepticism. Now, I want to address the portion of your post in bold type above. Yes, two men did publicly admit being the ones who made all the crop circles. Yes, they did demonstrate their technique for doing them. I don't know if I ever heard their reasons for why. Those two men are both now dead, but crop circles continue appearing. Yes, it is true that every year there are new man-made crop circles. But there are scientifically significant differences in those that are man-made & those that aren't. I know your skepticism is rearing its head now, but be patient. There are several reasons, based on evidence, that I reject the two men's claims for authorship of the crop circles, & with it any claim for all being man-made. Of course, some are man-made each year. I don't deny that. But the man-made ones are unsophisticated. COMPLEXITY: All the really successful man-made crop circles are simple or simplistic. But real crop circles can be incredibly complex & detailed. When you consider they are being made at night, in total darkness, you have to address the very real question of how that complexity could be achieved by anyone stomping around in the dark without flashlights or lanterns (no one has ever been seen making crop circles unannounced beforehand). Also, real crop circles aren't simply squashed down or flattened by using wooden boards. Those tend to break the straws. Real crop circles don't have broken or damaged straws. They continue growing after the circle is made--and at an increasing rate as you approach the center of the circle from the edge. How would that happen in a man-made circle? In man made circles, the straws tend to align parallel with each other, forming a flattened matte over the ground where they were pushed down by boards. In real crop circles there's a complex pattern of twisted strands that form a weaved pattern throughout the circle. This would be next to impossible to achieve manually, even in daytime, & would take forever. But real crop circles are made overnight, in the dark, & are extremely complex in their patterns, & always perfect in their final form. This is simply not possible by human hands. NODES: Nodes are small hollow areas where the main shoot & tangential branches meet. In man-made crop circles, these can be weak points where the main stalk breaks or splinters. But in real crop circles they are literally blown out on one side by heat, but in such a way that the plant itself is not damaged, & keeps growing. I want you to wonder how anyone could manage to pick out that exact same node in each individual strand, at that same exact height above the ground, heat it somehow till it exploded, blowing a hole out one side, & laying down on the ground in a beautiful, artistic weave not unlike those used in basket making. Then tell me two men did it stomping down on wooden boards in the dark of night. This is where my skepticism rears it head. I will add just a couple of new items for your consideration. First, crop circles come in a wide range of sizes. Man made ones generally in the smaller categories. The largest one I'm aware of included over 130 circles linked by precise curving lines, in a highly intricate pattern beautiful to see, & all done at night during a severe rainstorm, & in a field where the mud was so deep & thick & sticky that rubber boots sank six inches at every step, & dug immense holes everywhere one stepped. Yet, inside that immense (over 1,200 feet in diameter) crop circle there was no sign of human footprints upon discovery the next morning. Please tell me how two, or any number of men, could have achieved that, overnight, in such deplorable conditions, & leave no footprints. I'll mention one incident in England, where a pilot flew over a blank field on the way to a nearby town, landed, did what he went there to do, then flew back to his point of origin. He flew over the same field as previously mentioned between 20 & 30 minutes after his first fly over. But this time there was a new crop circle in that field below him. All this happened in broad daylight. The pilot saw no evidence of humans in the field, or any sort of machinery or mechanisms that could have been used as tools to make the circle. He just saw the circle. There's a Youtube video about this incident. Lastly, I'll mention a famous video taken by a crop circle enthusiast in 1984, showing some light orbs flying around a field of grains, actually making a crop circle as they flew. You can see the orbs flying, & the grasses parting on their own as the orbs flew overhead, making the intricate circles & the pathways connecting them. It all took about 30 seconds. Detractors have come up with all kinds of reasons the video cannot be trusted, but none of them stand up under scrutiny. The video was made with one of those old, gigantic, shoulder supported VHS systems years before computers or softwares made it possible to alter video images. The videos are available for viewing on Youtube. As stated above, skepticism is a healthy thing, so long as it doesn't become a convenient barrier to the truth. The healthiest skeptics are those who decide to allow evidence rather than preconceptions determine final outcomes. That choice is yours.
Simple, and we know how they were made. Stakes and string. The exact same things used to make things like the monuments in Egypt, Greece, Rome, and other places prior to the 19th century. Entire massive structures and civilizations were based on measuring tools no more complex than a stake and string. Even aqueducts driven for hundreds of miles with tunnels over a mile long, with only those simple surveying tools. And man made ones were not complex? Now we know that all of these are man made, but UFO fanatics claim that at least one of them is made by UFOs. Which one is that? Well, I can tell you that it is the most famous of the ones pictured above. The two people who made it later claimed credit for it, claiming they did it in just over an hour. And a few years ago 2 more guys made a copy of it, in just over an hour. Do not doubt what people with a little knowledge in geometry can do in a short amount of time in the dark. I have laid in entire PATRIOT Missile batteries in the dark with nothing more sophisticated than a compass and measuring distanced by counting my steps. Then later verifying it by GPS and all of our placements being within 10 feet of their designated locations in an area covering almost a square mile. And that was without flashlights also.
XploreR, you really need to 'stop check' and assess you biases. The Atlantic is a highly respected broad based, current affairs and social commentary magazine with ZERO history of displaying an antiscience bias. Live Science is science news consolidator (FGS) and consequently gets zero benefit form suppressing major scientific discoveries. And Scopes debunks frauds,fake news and conspiracy theories. To be clear the GIA website's business model is based on the principal of: publish media reports proving aliens have visited Earth - money comes in. Publish a story proving aliens haven't visited earth - NO money comes in. What do you think they are going to publish? As for the others they have absolutely zero skin in the game. Their business models involve publishing reviews and stories (or fact checking them) - they make money (or receive donations) regardless of which side of the Alien debate they take. And guess what - if there was clear proof of alien visitation they would would say so because it would be a huge story. You said it yourself Scope 'debunks frauds,fake news and conspiracy theories.' Yet you insist on dismissing these organizations stories because they 'biased'. Apparently GIA isn't biased but they are!!! ???? Well pot to kettle. I repeat you seriously need to check your own biases. Again just because you want it to be true doesn't make it true. And like these sites I too have no 'skin in the game'. I am more than happy for someone to prove the existence of aliens, it would be one of the greatest if no the greatest scientific discoveries of the ages. But I want hard proof.
Oh, junk science is big money. Just ask David Wolfe. That guy has gotten filthy rich off of it. He is a flat earther, claims that chemtrails are real, that supplements (he sells) cure cancer, eating raw unprocessed food (which he sells) cures diseases and keeps people young and healthy, and that deer antler spray (which by the way he also sells) rejuvenates cells. Oh, and he also believes that gravity is toxic, and it is the salt in the oceans that keeps them from floating away from the planet. The guy is a complete scam, and would have made a great snake oil salesman 150 years ago. And he will pitch any fantastic thing you try to get others to invest in or buy, if you pay him enough money and it is flakey enough. Feel free to look up his promotional videos, they make him millions of dollars a year. Things like solar panels in roads, wind trees that suck up CO2 and produce pearls, and a ton of other garbage. Before I cut off my Facebook I had people send me those all the damned time. It finally got to the point that I told everybody to never send me a David Wolfe video ever again, the guy is a con artist. Oh, and BTW, he really thinks gravity is a toxin. Arthritis is a disease that results from to much intake of gravity. And that suspending yourself upside down reverses it, turning the toxin into a gravity that then heals the bad effects of arthritis. And he make over $3 million a year spouting and repeating crap like that. That is my view of the entire CT and pseudoscience arena. People do it because it is big business. And like Amway, they try to increase their source of income by trying to suck other people into sharing those beliefs.
When did the eyes of trained observers along with 2 different radar systems and gun camera video with multiple modes stopped being evidence? Such evidence would be used in time of war as a part of the war effort . Foia released documents contains evidence they exist . And such documents from the US and the old ussr contain reports of these craft shutting down some icbm sites in the us. The same thing happened to some USSR icbm sites too. Except in Russia these ufos started their launch sequence. No not at all . The evidence for the existence of these craft is overwhelming and includes govt documents . Those like you have no idea as to that evidence because you have not seen it . Nor even looked for it. The time for swamp gas is over. When our and other military interacts with these craft and get shut down and out performed exponentially time after time that is sufficient evidence for reasonable people. Those that demand the evidence that can be held in hand are people that cannot accept the facts revealed by interactions by not just our military . But if those craft had Russia written on those craft they sure as hell would accept it. Our defense system relies heavily on what you call non evidence! And your ilk cant even admit that! This is an issue of incoherence coming from the deniers . Or the inability to accept the existence of craft that are not of our tech. The same kind of people given consideration of the Brooking Institute. Who could not mentally handle something not of human origen.
All the stuff you mention is evidence for something but not for ET's. It's evidence that someone saw something. But not evidence of ET's. Speculating that someone else has seen something is not evidence. IMO military sightings are no better or worse than non-military sightings because they all involve humans. When you call me 'ilk' there's nothing you can do to effect my thinking, however, when you make such disparaging and rude remarks, it tells me you are not worthy of this discussion...
Hell, RADAR is well known to be flakey. That is why RADAR operators go through so much training. I have seen object appear on the screen traveling at insane speeds, only to vanish. I have also seen aircraft appearing to stop in midair then start to move again on RADAR screens. We all went into a panic about 10 years ago when an object suddenly appeared just inside the Iranian border and was screaming right at us at over 3,000 mph, then it just vanished. We never did figure out what caused it, but we do know it was not real. Basically the RADAR system having a hallucination. I defy anybody to find a RADAR operator that has not seen strange things that they could not explain. It is just part of the system. And this is not even new. British RADAR operators used to keep what they called "Pixie Reports", in which they logged things that appeared on their screens that they could not explain. And one reason they were rarely taken seriously early in the war was because of all the strange false positive contacts and completely unexplained contacts that they reported. And in all the decades since, we still sometimes get weird things that make no sense. That is where the trained operator comes in, that can understand that not everything the system reports is real. I have even seen a tape where a stationary object was moving at over 300 mph. And yes, it was not moving on the screen, but the RADAR also reported it was moving at 300 miles per hour. The report that went with that datadump said that they believed it had locked onto an unusually large flock of birds. It was barely moving in the view of the system, but the movements of the wings was causing the false speed reading.
You didn't pay attention to anything I wrote in my post. There's nothing in nature harder to let light into than a closed mind. Yours is made up. So I wish you the best. Like us all, you make your own reality, & in yours, there's no room for the truth on this topic. Sorry.
I'm sory I came across as "biased" in my post. I am a lifelong science enthusiast, who strongly believes in & supports the scientific method. But in recent years, I've become increasingly aware of & concerned over a growing American distortion of science. I'm not certain of its sources, but suspect American Evangelicalism & the spreading extremist conservative views of average Americans. At any rate, there's a deeply embedded antipathy toward Ufology & Extraterrestrial life studies within traditional science leaders here. For example, the lab studies done on the Nazca Mummies were done in labs in Europe & I believe, South America or South Africa. No lab in America would agree to do them due to fear of losing financial support from their funding agencies. Such bias is standard procedure here, & it speaks volumes on how American science has become politically dogmatic rather than open to the study of any & all natural phenomenon. That is a betrayal of the scientific method itself. I agree with you. I want these mummies studied openly & under strictly controlled scientific guidelines, with no opportunities for faking or falsifying the results. I agree with you that the possibility of proving them the real remains of Extraterrestrials, would rank as one of the greatest discoveries in human history. Yet, when the Mexican governmental agency in control of archaeological science there, was invited by the Gaia.com scientists, to participate in the lab studies, that agency refused, & made fun of the project in the media as a part of their rejection. They weren't open to the study itself. So, the scientific bias isn't limited to the U.S. alone. My question & concern is, how do we get established scientific facilities & government funding agencies, to open themselves to the prospects of these types of studies, openly & honestly, based on pure scientific procedures? How do we get them to turn away from their long established biases & dogmas, to allow something new & promising to be studied instead of feared? I agree with you. We need proof. But to get that proof, we need scientists & science itself to open themselves to the studies that would make that proof possible.
Great anecdotes why humans and technology remain flawed! IMO we will eventually bump into some ET's and when it happens, whether face-to-face or through collected data, at that moment we will know we have the evidence...
I don't dispute your post, but I've had one experience where I saw a UFO do exactly that with my eyes. The "craft" looked like a star directly overhead. It dropped from a similar object, floated beneath that other object for a few seconds, then from a stationary position, darted off & disappeared beyond the western horizon in about 1-2 seconds. I probably wouldn't have believed my own eyes, except there were three other people with me at the time, & all saw it & let out simultaneous loud yelps in response. It was certainly the topic of discussion later on the drive home.
XploreR I take your points, albeit I think you overestimate the influence on some groups Evangelical Christianity in American science. Oh I agree its a real phenomenon but its impact, especially on the hard physical sciences (physics, chemistry etc) is limited and even in the biological sciences their influence is virtually non-existent outside of the US. For the rest, if their lab results as GIA claimed showed the presence of alien DNA they could have identified the labs responsible and more importantly - those labs could shared findings and their samples with other reputable labs outside of the US - but nada. And the thing is this is exactly what reputable scientists would do. If they make a claim to have discovered substance/object 'X' they are obliged to share samples of 'X" with other labs so that their results can be independently verified. In fact that's the key hallmark of a science scam. Some 'inventor' claims to have discovered a revolutionary power source or whatever but repeatedly refuses to let outside independent observers test it. (And in the rare cases where they do finally relent and the testing shows zero to minimal results the inventor starts jumping up and down and accusing the testers of trying to discredit him/suppress his discovery. Even though said invention would, if it worked as claimed revolutionize modern society.) As I noted previously GIA's business model is based on 'proving' to their subscribers that aliens exist. This undermines their credibility from the outset.
Maybe the Army is going to detect more UFO/alien transmissions now... maybe. Scientists create quantum sensor that covers entire radio frequency spectrum https://phys.org/news/2020-03-scientists-quantum-sensor-entire-radio.html
