Do you think any aliens know we are here ??

Discussion in 'Science' started by Quasar44, Feb 3, 2020.

  1. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Well-Known Member

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    Yes..they could be silent watchers
     
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  2. skepticalmike

    skepticalmike Active Member

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    I found this article to be interesting, "Evolution tells us we might be the only intelligent life in the universe" at theconversation.com.

    https://theconversation.com/evoluti...-only-intelligent-life-in-the-universe-124706

    What’s more, these events depended on one another. Humans couldn’t evolve until fish evolved bones that let them crawl onto land. Bones couldn’t evolve until complex animals appeared. Complex animals needed complex cells, and complex cells needed oxygen, made by photosynthesis. None of this happens without the evolution of life, a singular event among singular events. All organisms come from a single ancestor; as far as we can tell, life only happened once.

    Curiously, all this takes a surprisingly long time. Photosynthesis evolved 1.5 billion years after the Earth’s formation, complex cells after 2.7 billion years, complex animals after 4 billion years, and human intelligence 4.5 billion years after the Earth formed. That these innovations are so useful but took so long to evolve implies that they’re exceedingly improbable.
     
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  3. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    As long as you ignore thousands of reports.
     
  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Many believe they ARE the watchers mentioned in the Bible.

    In the Book of Enoch I believe, one biblical figure was taken by the angels and returned 200 years later, but only a little older.

    Sound familiar at all? I find it fascinating that the angels appear to be limited by Special Relativity.

    They painted them like this 700 years ago

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe the reports are necessarily inconsistent with Earthly phenomena of today.

    Let's remember they are unidentified objects.
     
  6. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since the late 40s? Practically impossible. Defying what our brightest know of physics?

    That would require one great conspiracy and a complicit science community all of them in on it.
     
  7. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure but they are objects that behave like craft and can be seen with eyes and our high tech military instruments used in war . And easily out fly the best we have without rocketry or visible propulsion.

    And science is scared to do the research.
     
  8. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    What I find interesting also is the Hindu Mahabharata and the Ramayana. They were oral stories put to writing around 400 BC. They talk of flying chariots, floating cities in the sky, amazing super weapons and war in the skies. How long these stories that make up the Mahabharata and the Ramayana were around prior to them put to paper is unknown. Stories that could have come straight out of Star Trek, only they're 2500, 3000 years old.

    Then there are the Egyptian hieroglyphs of a space ship, helicopter, tank etc.
     
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  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    You can only say that if you ignore thousands of reports. There are many, some that come with compelling evidence, such as the Travis Walton case, that rule out any natural phenomena if assumed to be true. So it comes down to picking and choosing which reports you want to consider. You can certainly find reports to support you hypothesis. And I can cite plenty that don't.
     
  10. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    So it would seem. Not long ago I was working with an engineer who was raised in India. I asked him about this. From what I understand, the Hindu texts are taken as a history, not myth. He said that is basically true. So I asked if most people believe this history. He shrugged and said yes, many do.

    Their written history is supposed to go back as far as 10,000 years, IIRC. But in any case, yes it is fascinating when viewed through this lens, as are many biblical accounts, the ancient Egyptians, native Americans, the Intuit, Australian aborigines, and ancient accounts from disparate people all over the world. This is to me one of the most compelling arguments in favor of the ancient astronaut hypothesis. We and people all over the globe look to the heavens for god because that is where he came from the first time.

    And cargo cults exemplify the diefication process that is natural when primitive cultures confront advanced technology.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
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  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, scientists don't want to be labeled as nut cases, as that can be career ending.

    If the military thinks there is anything to examine, they can do that as they have plenty of scientists to order around.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - Travis Walton. That was investigated by more than one independent UFOlogist and found to be a hoax.

    I agree that enumerating cases that are hoaxes is not a valid approach for those who are skeptical. I'm definitely skeptical and I'm certainly not going to go that direction.

    Likewise, listing cases that are so far indeterinate is also not sufficient evidence - other than perhaps for doing serious research. And, I'm always going to back serious examination of those things we care about.
     
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  13. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems to be a taboo when it comes to science in academia Yet these things exist .

    I figure our govt has had science to look into it and then tell them to dismiss these craft as swamp gas .

    Hell these things may be supernatural like elves. And science is wrong.
     
  14. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Name the ufo researcher who found the walton case to be a hoax . Only pro debunkers say its a hoax .

    While I am skeptical of abductions I am also aware of this case and only debunkers say it is a hoax with no proof to support it. Hell the debunker Glass tried to pay one of the witnesses 10 grand to say it was a hoax and was turned down.

    Your knowledge is too superficial on this subject imo.
     
  15. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Donor

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    Most Hindu's do take it as history. Sure, a primitive culture seeing a spaceship with nothing to compare it to would use words from their own language to come the closes, hence flying chariot. Archaeologist also have found a couple of the ancient cities talked about in the Mahabharata pretty much right where the book said they were.

    It easy to understand an ancient meeting a space traveler and equating him to a god. This is something I keep an open mind to. Ancient Aliens is possible, perhaps even probable. There's plenty of things around that are explainable that could back up that theory. But so many scientist today just shun that just because they don't fit into their nice neatly packed theories of today.
     
  16. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Any alien race in this galaxy in the last billion years could easily have colonized the entire galaxy hundreds of times over by now, even in ships travelling at 1% speed of light. We don't see any evidence of this. We don't see any evidence of interstellar warfare in 100,000 galaxies we've surveyed. No evidence of large-scale engineering projects. No beacons, no messages, no Dyson spheres, no nearby planets in weird artificial orbits. Nothing.

    I think we're in a simulation. One way of saving computing power would be to limit the number of intelligent races in your simulated universe to 1.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe I ignored anything.

    I fully agree there have been a lot of reports of unexplained phenomena.

    That's why they get called "unidentified".

    Having lots of reports of unidentified objects doesn't suggest little green men. It suggests we have a lot of unidentified pheonomena.
     
  18. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    Yes. The UFO issue ties in directly with the Fermi Paradox:

    If UFO's are alien spacecraft, then there exist technologically advanced aliens. Any intelligent species is going to gather information about its surrounding, maximize available energy and minimize existential risks. A technologically advanced race would then be expected to send probes to nearby stars and try and collect as much power from their sun as is feasible. Having too much energy at your disposal is never a bad thing. Neither is sending out colonists.

    So where are the colonization waves? Where are the artificially dim stars surrounded by swarms of solar panels? This looks like a pristine galaxy that hasn't been touched by anything. If advanced aliens exist, that really shouldn't be the case, unless they're projecting some fake universe around this planet or something.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes - good points.

    I'm at least as affected by the fact that just the visible part of our universe is 93B light years in diameter, containing 2 trillion galaxies.

    Yet, we have't been able to search for life on ANY exoplanets in our own galaxy. We don't even know for sure if there is life in our own solar system. Plus, I tend to believe that those in our universe have to live by the same physics we do - a serioius limitation on observation, let alone travel.


    Cosmologists believe there are between 10 million and 100 million supernovae PER DAY in our universe.

    I wonder if any civilizations were wiped out TODAY.
     
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  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    By "these things" I assume you mean reports of UFO sightings.

    So, science is wrong? Interesting!
     
  21. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    When people are in different situations their imaginations can run wild. Like being a city kid camping out in the wilderness for the first time. IMO an alien race may be intelligent but not concerned with space travel. An advanced Civilization may have risen and fallen. Or could be elsewhere in its development and not advanced enough for interstellar travel yet. Or it could come as a seed on a solar wind. Or maybe there is a problem of scale? And their greatest ships are three inches long.... or shorter.
     
  22. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    I seriously doubt that there is intelligent life on other planets. There is a growing number of astrophysicists that subscibe to the Rare Earth Hypothesis in which scientist began looking at all the elements which are required for life to occur. Not just intelligent life, mind you, but conditions which would allow the survival of long chain amino acids. The mainstream view of life on other planets states that there are billions and billions of stars, a certain percentage of those stars have planets, and statistically speaking, this would pretty much ensure that there is intelligent life on other planets.

    The rare earth hypothesis simply takes the number of stars and then starts winnowing down the possiblity of life by multiplying the chances of finding the right conditions. As an example, out of the billions and billions of stars, most are located in the center of a galaxy. The center of a galaxy is a terrible place for life to exist because the interactions with quasars, neutron stars, gravitational pulls of nearby stars, the presence of x-ray or other types of radiation and a whole host of other factors. So you multiply the billions and billions of stars by .001 which is a guess as to how many stars are not in the center of a galaxy. That leaves stars in the outer spiral arms of a galaxy, but life is almost impossible in the leading edge of the spiral arms of a galaxy and the leading edge of a spiral arm of a galaxy is where most of stars reside, so we take the number of stars not in a galaxy center and multiply that by .001 and you end up with the number of possible stars in the trailing edges. Most stars are in binary orbits or are found in globular clusters which cannot support life.

    Continuing the process, start eliminating types of stars, gas planets, planets without comet sweeping gas giants in ecliptic orbits paths outside of a possible exoplanet, gas planets, temperature Goldilock zones, radiation Goldilock zones, and several hundred other factors, and the mathematical probability of life is infintisimal.

    If you continue doing the math, you end up with a very small number of exoplanets which have even the remostest possibility of sustaining life. Out of the number of exoplanets we have discovered, roughly 6,500 as of 2020, we have found exactly zero which are likely to sustain life.

    Which brings us back to the question asked by the OP, we haven't seen intelligent life because it is highly likely that there isn't any life out there at all.
     
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  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to object to that too strongly.

    But, I would point out that very few of the exoplanets we have found to date have received the examination required to rule out lilfe. And, these exoplanets tend to have characteristics that make them findable - which can also make them less likely to support life as we know it. We're more likely to find Jupiters than Earths.

    The EU is set to launch a space telescope designed to look for life. It will go back over the exoplanets we have found. Even then, this is a tiny scratch on the surface of actually searching our region of this galaxy.

    At this point it's known that a few of the moons within our solar system have liquid water below the surface, making it possible that there is life down there - without light, perhaps somewhat like the environment miles below our ocean surface where light can't penetrate, yet where life exists. That's not a likley place for life forms to built space ships, but finding any life would be huge - and it's an indication of the daunting task of searching for life.

    I do get your math, but I think we need to keep looking.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
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  24. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are unaware of govt documents that admit these craft are from something not human.

    Do some serious research on these documents acquired via FOIA.

    Denial is the product of ignorance since the material is out there.

    No little green men but from some intelligence much greater than yours and our brightest men of science.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  25. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes the interactions of our fighter pilots with craft beyond our technology.

    That science in academia is too scared of to admit to their existence just as some here are.

    These craft exist and are so advanced as to appear to be magic and yet you are debating if intelligent life exists outside of us ? While the evidence is here in our reality.

    It is just a bit insane what you guys are arguing over. Lol..

    Some kind of intelligence is showing us their craft as heads are shoved deeper into rectums ! Lol

    Science is wrong in ignoring a reality that they dismiss as impossible hocus pocus. There was a Ted Talk about this recently.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020

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