Do You Think Our Tax System Is Fair?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by KAMALAYKA, Apr 6, 2019.

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Is our tax system fair?

Poll closed Apr 13, 2019.
  1. Yes

    11.5%
  2. No

    88.5%
  1. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    True. Very true.
     
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  2. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Well, I ain't rich, and I sure ain't poor, either. Trump's version of tax reform did put about one thousand dollars more in my pocket, which I would rather have than NOT have. But a thousand bucks is pretty much the definition of "chump change"....

    The U. S. Tax Code stunk to high heaven before Trump's tax reform, and it still stinks to high heaven today. NOBODY has ever been able to purge all the tax loopholes, tax shelters, exclusions, exemptions, and deductions out of the Tax Code, and until somebody does, it will remain a fraud-stuffed, completely corrupted system that DEFINITELY strongly favors the rich.

    But before you take another breath to curse Trump, remember -- when it came to really overhauling the Tax Code, getting all the unfair crap removed, once and for all -- "Messiah" Obama did nothing! "W" Bush did nothing! Bill Clinton did nothing! "Daddy Bush" did nothing! And even my beloved Ronald Reagan, who was surely the very best president of my long lifetime, was NOT able to change it... he achieved nothing! Neither did "Jimmuh Cawduh", Gerald Ford, Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson, and, no, not even one of the great heroes of my childhood, John F. Kennedy, was able to put any real JUSTICE in the U. S. Tax Code....

    The whole damned thing needs to be thrown out and completely re-written so that all the 'preferential' treatment for the wealthy is removed -- permanently!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
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  3. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. What do you think of the suggestions recently made by Elizabeth Warren regarding taxes?
     
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  4. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    OK, first, let's look at what we're talking about: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/18/upshot/warren-wealth-tax.html . I'll be 'cherry-picking' this surprisingly well-written article below (BTW, I usually don't like much of anything in the New York Times....)

    Senator Elizabeth Warren's plan: a tax on a family’s wealth above $50 million at 2 percent a year, with an additional surcharge of 1 percent on wealth over $1 billion. At first, it seems like a good idea to anyone who doesn't sit on assets worth $50 million -- a sigh of relief escapes the lips of the Middle Class -- but that's never the way these things actually happen.

    On paper, her proposal would work a little like the property tax that most cities and states impose on real estate, an annual payment tied to the value of assets rather than income. But instead of applying just to homes and land, it would apply to everything: fine art collections, yachts and privately held businesses.

    The article describes how even in tax-hungry Europe, this "accumulated-wealth" approach to taxation is far less popular than it was even 15 years ago. The author cites various reasons, but I feel that the greatest lurking danger is that people are sold on the idea that it will only affect the 'Mega-rich' -- but in PRACTICE, it ends up being stuck on those in the Middle Class, and, the 'Mega-rich' find ways to get all their favorite tax write-off's, deductions, exemptions, exclusions, tax loopholes, and tax shelters built right back into it! So, within a few years, WHO would end up really paying a "wealth tax"? Go look in the mirror! Just one more burden on a Middle Class that already pays for everything!

    Simply put, I don't trust ANY politician to do what's fair and right for the taxpaying citizens of this country -- especially after we've been subjected to at least 35 years of 'dumbing-down' in our public schools. People don't know anything because they were never taught anything -- and yet they're allowed to VOTE.

    In conclusion, I will never forget the object lesson we all SHOULD have learned well from Jonathan Gruber, the prime architect of Obamacare. You may be sure that in the ranks of a hyperliberal Democrat like "Dizzy Lizzy" Warren someone like Gruber would be handling the back-office mechanics for her "magic show"....

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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  5. Gorgeous George

    Gorgeous George Well-Known Member

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    At least he broke the ice. It's a start. It can be improved.
    Nevermind. The bean counters will win.
     
  6. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Plug the loopholes, they will find new ones.

    The more you earn, the more you pay in tax due to spending more money on goods and services etc..
     
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  7. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Value added tax? Listen, this tax only hurts the poor. They will pay too much of their take home in taxes and it will cause them to have a worse life, not better. The wealthy travel more, they have maids and landscapers. How do you tax those things? VAT is a bad way and will only benefit the wealthy.
     
  8. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They have maids? Erm, ok.

    How do you tax travel? Erm, airport tax, VAT on holidays, hotels etc.. Do you think they spend the same amount on these items? Goods and services attract tax.

    How do they pay more tax, an example, a new £10,000 car will attract 20% VAT. Would someone on £200,000 a year or £1m a year but a £10,000 car? So they buy a £50,000 car and pay £10,000 in VAT. They've just spent an extra £8,000.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  9. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We are looking at this from two different positions. You are already in a socialist economy and we are not. So, there is no need for you to worry about the same issues as me. For your country, this VAT tax might be great. It won't be for ours. It's unfair. It causes folks to purchase less. It will affect the economy negatively.
     
  10. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't you have state tax?

    And if you believe the UK is socialist, I don't think politics is your forte.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  11. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, I have state tax. I also have sales tax. The combination means my money is taxed twice. Literally four times, since all taxes are based on gross without deducting for the cost of the previous tax. If that is fair, I'm not sure what is not. A sales tax is unfair to the poor. It is loved by those with money. They can pay nearly the same amount as the poor. It is another way of saying everyone owes ten bucks no matter what they make.
     
  12. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    The reason I do trust Warren more than most politicians is for the simple, but important, fact that she comes from a lower middle class family, & experienced financial hardship & struggle herself personally. She relates to those who are NOT RICH, and has dedicated much of her energy & attention as Senator, doing what she can to protect & assist that middle class.
     
  13. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    "According to public financial disclosure forms filed with the federal election officials in February 2019, Warren and her husband have a combined net worth between $4 million and $11 million."

    Link: https://www.financialsamurai.com/what-is-elizabeth-warrens-net-worth-and-income/

    The only person I'm going to trust concerning any "tax reform" is the one that stands up and says, "I'm SWEAR that I'm going to completely re-write the U. S. Tax Code to get rid of ALL tax loopholes, tax shelters, exemptions, exclusions, deductions, and 'carried interest', and replace it with FAIR AND EQUAL TAXATION FOR ALL CITIZENS, PERIOD!" BTW, that person has not announced a candidacy yet in any political party -- not "Fat Cat" Republican, OR, "Limousine Liberal" Democrat.... I won't hold my breath.
     
  14. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    1. I never disputed that E. Warren has been financially successful since her college years, but she came from lower middle class, & DID experience financial hardship earlier in life. Her entire tenure in the Senate has been noteworthy for her commitment to helping & protecting the middle class. I like her.
    2. Equal taxation for all citizens at a flat rate is TOTALLY UNFAIR, since 15% (or any %) of a wealthy family's income leaves them more than enough to live on, but that same rigid % paid by a poor family can leave them with insufficient funds for survival. A flat tax rate is completely unfair.
     
  15. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty much what we already do in terms of income tax. Other taxes don't work that way.
     
  16. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    I'm not sure you understand how taxes work.

    Earned income is taxed on a progressive scale where the more you make, the more you pay. Capital gains are taxes at the same rate for everyone.
     
  17. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    I understand how taxes work. My point is that the wealthiest earners earn a flat rate. I'm not discussing capital gains tax. I'm discussing income tax. The CEO of Disney, who has a salary of tens of millions, pays the same income rate as a man who earns $1 million/yr. Doesn't that bother you?
     
  18. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    No. It doesnt bother me. And no, you dont understand how taxes work if you think anyone pays a flat rate income tax.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  19. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    If one CEO is paid $1 million/yr and the other is paid $48 million/yr, they pay the same rate. Once you reach a certain level of income, it's a flat rate.
     
  20. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    And you still dont understand taxes. There will always be a top rate.
     
  21. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the $1 million/year person is worried too much about it. There has to be a stop to the tax rate at some point. If you tax to a confiscatory level, you end up running the truly rich out of your country. They will find a country with a lower tax rate.
     
  22. KAMALAYKA

    KAMALAYKA Banned

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    I have a better idea. Anyone who earns under $50,000/yr pays no federal income tax and the dozens of loopholes used by the wealthy to avoid paying taxes are closed.
     
  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The government should never engage in fairness. It was founded to treat people equally. The only system that is equal is a flat tax for every one. Every "fair" system treats people unequally. If we got rid of the activities that don't belong in federal government, we would clear out about 70% of federal spending require way, way, way fewer federal taxes. Then the programs and taxes could move to the states where they belong.
     
  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope. We have one of the most progressive tax systems in the developed world. The rich pay the most in income taxes.
     
  25. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    and property taxes. The rates are higher in affluent areas then compared to other areas. If rates were the same, their taxes would be lower. Hence, the rich are already taxed at a pretty high rate.
     

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