Do you think that the British Isles are a part of Europe?

As far back as the Roman Empire's invasion of the British Isles during the Gallic Wars of 55 - 54 B. C., it became clear that the development of what we call "Great Britain" was definitely "European" in culture, language, and race. The added 'infusion' of European influence by the Normans (France) in 1066 has made it clear that nearly a thousand years afterward that, yes, "the British Isles" (including its ancillary parts) are European.

 

Greenland sits on the North American Teutonic Plate, not the European. The North American Teutonic Plate also cuts Iceland in half. Hence all of Iceland's volcanic activity.

 

To that I say:
Sometimes it is better to leave things a bit open than to be all too exact and definite about it.

 

Simple answer, yes.

 

And to that, I reply: there is a great middle ground between completely open, which I would consider this thread, and "too exact."

But you do you. It is not my place to dictate how you write your OPs. I brought it up to you, once, and so have no reason to reiterate myself. The comment you quoted was written to someone else, noting that, because of the very open nature of your OP, it was very possible that my about to be stated disagreement with that poster, could simply be due to us reading your question differently. This was a reasonable likelihood, & I think a worthwhile caveat to mention, since it might help avoid a misunderstanding; and that is just part of me, doing me.

 

Not at all. They're very distinct places.

Scotland is no more Italy, than Australia is Indonesia.

 

Speaking of continent's, everyone forgets about the hidden continent of Zealandia!

https://www.visitzealandia.com/About/History/The-Continent-of-Zealandia

 

Finland isn't like Italy either. That argument would mean Europe doesn't exists at all. Glasgow isn't like the Shetlands too, so presumably Scotland doesn't exist either.

 

Yes of course we are, geography doesn't lie.

 

And this somehow matters in what regard? Are the Brits planning on declaring themselves part of Asia?

 

That may be coming next, Joe... a lot of the eastern-half of Europe is already deeply 'in-bed' with the Chinese. Hint: Even a thoroughly "European" company like VOLVO has a new 'friend' -- Geely!

In December 2017, Geely invested €3.25 billion into Swedish truck and construction company Volvo Group, a former parent company of Volvo Cars. The deal made Geely the biggest shareholder by number of shares with an 8.2% stake, and second by voting rights, with 15.6%. Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., Ltd, commonly known as Geely, is a Chinese multinational automotive company headquartered in Hangzhou, Zhejiang. The company is privately held by Chinese billionaire business magnate Li Shufu.

My German friends tell me that they're practically falling in bed right now with the Chinese, and they're already in bed with the Russians (natural gas -- LOTS of natural gas, via the Nord Stream 2 pipeline)....

 

I don't think that Finland IS Italy .. do you? Europe is a land mass, not a nation.

 

The point is that it isn't a be-all and end-all. No to areas, however large or small) will be exactly the same but there are cultural, social, historic and political commonalities across Europe which is why there are so many formal and informal political links across the region, just as there are in other region of the world. Finland, Italy and the UK have plenty of differences but they all have more in common than any might have with, taking random examples, Peru, Malaysia or Bhutan.

 

That's not true, at all. In fact Finland is a very good example of just how different the different nations can be. They don't even have a EUROPEAN language, and are ethnically and culturally distinct to a degree. The Welsh are another good example of how different people can be despite proximity and land areas etc. The pure Welsh (and the Black Irish) are Celt-Iberians, not Anglo Saxons.

 

Again, none of that means there can't also be regional similarities too. No two individuals are exactly the same and nobody is drawing hard and fast lines here. There are lots of different, over-lapping areas and regions by all sort of different measures. Europe is one and that includes all of the British Isles. Continental Europe is another and doesn't.

By your extreme effort to avoid the UK being recognised in any way European would eliminate the legitimacy of any and all regional identifications, including things like Britain or Scotland.

 

Yes, Finland is its own animal; so are the people of Hungary. But your examples do not argue that Britain is not European. Even Celt-Iberians, are a European people. And, of course, most of Britain's people are Germanic, along with the people of Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Austria, and Switzerland (oh-- and Germany!).

 

Geologically, no.

While England might be, Ireland and Scotland are definitely not part of Europe, since they were previously attached to the North American Plate.

A hot-spot fractured the Plate separating Ireland and Scotland from North America, specifically O Canada! and specifically the Labrador Coast.

You call that "hot-spot" Iceland.

That Ireland and Scotland were part of North America is a matter of geologic record, since a mineral and palynological analysis identifies Scottish sources of Paleocene sandstones in coastal Labrador, meaning Scotland and Labrador are made of the same rock of the same age containing the exact same minerals.

The mountains in the Scottish highlands are the result of this hot-spot pushing that part of the North American Plate on which Ireland and Scotland rest into the plate on which England rests.

No, because such regions are artificially contrived by fallible humans.

Again, no, and false, because Britain is Gog, and Europe is not Gog.

The only cultural link is through language, but that is problematic, since the Angles and the Saxons are Germanic and the Norman French are Norsemen -- Vikings -- who speak Latin, and Latin is not German and Norse is not German.

The French are Latin-speaking Germans.

In terms of DNA, those Brits descended of Angles and Saxons are obviously genetically related to the Saxons in Germany who hail from Sachsenhausen -- the home of the Saxons --- and Niedersachsen -- the North Saxons.

The Britons and the Bretons in France are one in the same, since the Britons colonized Brittany -- right next to Normandy -- and their kin in jolly old England were later dispossessed of their lands which is why they were so hot and heavy to join William the Bastard in his quest to overthrow King Harold.

Later, the Bretons went to Ireland with the Normans and others.

So sorry to brake the news, but if your surname is Britt, you ain't Irish. You're a non-Anglo, non-Saxon, Brit.

Likewise, if your surname is Walsh or Wallace, you ain't Irish either. The Irish called you John de Walys. Yeah, John from Wales. You're Welsh. Bucking the historical trend where the conquered assimilate into the culture of the conquerors, the conquerors in Ireland assimilated into Irish culture, and the way your name was Gaelicized depended on which county your ancestors lived and then when the English came and forced everyone under penalty of death to Anglicize their names, your surname became Walsh or Wallace, again depending on the county where your ancestors lived.

Anyway, it's really quite silly to suggest that the British are European, because they ain't.

 

I live in a country wherein the indigenous peoples are Dravidians, and our island was once attached to the Asian landmass. But in no way shape or form are we anything like - or related to - India, or even South East Asia. Another close neighbour (Papua New Guinea) is Melanesian, and heavily influenced by our culture - yet we're still two very distinct nations. The Polynesian Pacific peoples might be similar in appearance and language families, but there's a HUGE difference between Tahiti and New Zealand.

 

That's kind of a disingenuous comparison, because when we think of New Zealand, we think of its current culture, which is European-- or British-- not the culture of its indigenous people. So the Germanic language family of English, is not at all related to the native language of Tahiti. Saying that, I am realizing how little I, or most of us, really know about Tahiti. They were or are a French territory, I believe. Is French, then, Tahiti's principle language? In consideration of this obscurity to most of us, about modern Tahiti, it would make your argument much clearer, and would be an interesting addition, for you to detail that culture, if you have a true knowledge of it, from having spent a substantial amount of time on that island. If not, maybe it would be of more benefit, for you to choose a better-known example. I will tack on, that remote islands, in areas where relatively few people live, are a poor model for analogizing to the British Isles, just across the English Channel-- which has been swum across!-- from Europe.

 

Which culture is that? The Beaker people, Celt, Roman, Viking, Anglo-Saxon, Norman?
Of course Britain is European.
Always has been.

 

You make valid points, but in the case of the 'British Isles', it's worth remembering that as far back as 55 B. C. those isles were invaded by people from the European mainland (Roman Empire, the 'Normans', et al). Subsequent invasions from European countries/cultures/kingdoms/etc., are peppered throughout the history of the 'British Isles'.

In this thread I see a diverse approach to the question arising, each of which is 'valid' in its own context: geological, and, that of human culture and history. Surely it made no difference to Caesar, the "Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Vikings", or the Normans) when each invaded what would come to be called the 'British Isles' what the geological composition of the land mass consisted of....

 

YOU may think of New Zealand that way, but those of us living on the Pacific Rim do not. We regard Pacific nations as cultures which are mostly native, but slightly European. When we think of New Zealand, we think of Aotearoa - a hybrid of indigenous and white culture. When we think of Tonga, we don't think about the German guy running the local hardware store .. we think of Tongans and Tongan culture.

As for Tahiti, yes .. French influence, but also some American influence due to its location. Similar to Guam, in some ways .. though Guam has more Asian influence. And the people of both Guam and Tahiti are quite different to the Southern Maori .. a people of Ice and Snow.

 

For example, top pic is Aotearoa, lower is Tahiti.

 

I personally thought that the Chunnel significantly altered the formula and made England, Scotland and Wales into a part of Europe......
sort of......
although technically England is separate from Europe.....
and I suppose that the Chunnel could be blown and flooded almost any day that England wished to increase their separateness from Europe......

Thank you for getting me thinking about this again......


England is all set up to become a driving force in the world economy.....

?
Do you think that the British Isles are a part of Europe?

1. 
   
   
   • 
     yes
     20 vote(s)
     74.1%
   • 
     no
     4 vote(s)
     14.8%
   • *
     England is a part of Europe
     3 vote(s)
     11.1%
   • 
     Wales is a part of Europe
     1 vote(s)
     3.7%
   • 
     Berwick upon Tweed is a part of Europe
     1 vote(s)
     3.7%
   • *
     Scotland is a part of Europa
     2 vote(s)
     7.4%
   • *
     Northern Island is a part of Europe
     2 vote(s)
     7.4%
   • 
     the Shetland Islands and the Orkney Islands are also part of Europe
     1 vote(s)
     3.7%
   • *
     the Republik of Ireland is a part of Europe
     2 vote(s)
     7.4%
   • 
     the UK is no part of Europe
     2 vote(s)
     7.4%
   • 
     other
     2 vote(s)
     7.4%

As you can see by the * I chose four options that I admit are probably legally and technically incorrect....... technically.... England is indeed separate from Europe legally...... and this is an important detail at this time......

 

I personally do think that there is indeed something special about England......
Orthodox Jewish historian and scholar Mr. Yair Davidiy does one of the best explanations for this distinction that I have personally ever ran into.......



https://britam.org/messiah.html

I believe that the world political forumla changed in 1996 when the English Coronation Stone was taken from London and given back to Scottland..........

and the real power in the world was given to a possible reincarnation of King David.........


Should Israel crown Donald J. Trump as Moshiach ben Ephrayim?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_of_Scone