Do you think that the Worgl, Austria experiment can be applied in America again?

Discussion in 'History and Culture' started by DennisTate, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My impression is that no nation has an English language film industry
    that could seriously compete with the USA but........
    President Donald J. Trump and his administration are in a position where they might be tempted to set up a situation.......
    where they cooperate with Canadian churches and church groups........
    to shift Hollywood into a different type of film production that will almost certainly
    produce films that have genuine historical value that will increase and increase over the coming decades and centuries......
     
  2. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not sure what you are intending. I thought this thread was about using a different currency in a small town in Austria and if it could be done here. I'm certainly no economist, so my opinion is just that.

    I don't think anyone understands Donald Trump. He isn't going to do anything with religion. That's not his job. He'll say things to upset the left, but that's about it. I think he laughs like crazy when they get all upset because he said something. He hasn't done anything. He even went along with the budget Congress, mostly the democrats of Congress wanted. They could have held out for something with DACA, but they aren't actually for DACA. They just don't want all the rallies illegals have in D.C. to get violent.

    Trump is likely an atheist. The government has everyone fooled.
     
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  3. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    If a dollar is held by a foreign interest, is it ok to create a new dollar to circulate in the domestic economy to replace it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 9:18 AM
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  4. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have no clue. What is a new dollar? You mean like a Susan B. Anthony instead of an Eisenhower? Do you mean the entire domestic economy or a small part of it? How much of it, a city, a town, a county? How many inhabitants? Who are they? What is their financial situation? What businesses are there?
     
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  5. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    There are examples of creating money or scrip and it being used, as I related, in towns wholly controlled by a "Company". Though the scrip was only used for trade between workers and "the company". It cannot be used for trade between 'the company' and anyone outside of their control.

    I suppose it would be quite possible to trade within a country in another scrip than that country trades with other nations, but it would take and exchange to the currency of choice, as used to be done before the world-wide spread of the Euro and the Dollar. I'm sure they exchange the dollar and Euro for other currencies following an exchange rate which is based upon the wealth and economy of the two countries, according to standards set by independent authorities.

    It may well be desired to trade in a new money within a nation. However, it would have to be a policy backed by some authority within the government or banking industry. This would create some issues with trading in dollars, since others would wonder if they are still backed. It would lower their value and cause a devaluation. That would not be good for the government, or the nation. We would have trouble paying back loans to other nations.

    The only way I can see something like this working in our favor is if the new money is backing the old money, rather than creating a different monetary system.

    Of course, I can only ask you to take this whole response with a huge grain of salt, because I'm shooting from the hip and have no real education in economics. I am simply thinking this out after reading very little. It is a completely general response to a very complex problem.

    Emphasis mine.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_company_towns_in_the_United_States
     
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  6. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    Apologies, I should have been more explicit.

    You had said:

    "I do think it is important to get all of our money, US dollars circulating in the world economy. When they do not come back home, there is a problem."

    Emphasis mine.

    I assume you mean that when US dollars are controlled by foreign interests, those dollars aren't circulating here and that's a problem (the trade deficit is somewhere around $700 billion a year). Now, you say your not an economist, but that is an excellent insight. The trade deficit represents the net number of dollars moving into the hands of foreign interests and that means less money circulating domestically.

    I was just asking if you thought it would be ok to replace a dollar "lost" to foreign interests with a new dollar, created by the government and spent back into the economy?

    As far as your lack of understanding on the subject, don't sweat it. I'm not being critical of your answer, rather I assume you have a little interest in that you engaged in discussion and I'm just trying to share my understanding. Rather than talk at you, I do my best to talk to the people I discuss with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 11:06 AM
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  7. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, I think when businesses go overseas and spend dollars there and they stay in that economy, I think it is bad because we don't have that money here to pay folks for goods and services. The government then has to print more to make up the difference. They give it to large banks at the current value, but as they are placed into the economy, they lose value as there are more dollars than before. I think, anyway.

    If that is true, it would be worse if those dollars were immediately sent overseas and not used in our economy first and foremost. That would increase inflation to it's highest possible point for our country, yet allow other countries to take advantage of a dollar with greater value attached. Now, if that dollar must be used to purchase goods or services from the U.S., they get more for their dollar than we do, when we purchase goods and services using the dollars they used to buy from us.

    So, we end up paying more than they did, simply because more money was printed and used overseas first. This all benefits those lending money most, though it also benefits any corporations taking advantage of the money borrowed right after those biggest banks get it from the fed reserve.

    If I were in it to make money, I'd send the money I borrowed overseas first and then let the U.S. pay the most in numbers of dollar bills after inflation takes hold. Those overseas corps, if they are owned or backed by U.S. folks, can make a killing or at least not get hit with the inflation.

    So, I think what you are asking is if the government is doing the right thing, cause that is what they are doing, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure how to answer. I think a better way might be to disperse the money differently, but I don't know how that could be ensured. It would have to go through our economy first. Or, the majority of it would. That's why I think so many complain about the trade deficit.

    I am guessing.
     
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have something in mind that we would need the cooperation of the nation of Israel to accomplish successfully:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...nyahu-lets-get-into-the-production-of.423385/

    P. M. Benjamin Netanyahu, let's get into the production of....
    .... semi reality science fiction film projects that are partly financed through alternative local currencies, and/or State currencies, and/or community currencies......... that address specific problems that human beings are facing now in 2015?


    I am thinking YES.....
    but there are some dangers involved.....
    as I attempt to get into in this other discussion:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ump-has-a-4-3-trillion-dollar-problem.525406/

    M. P. Bill Casey... President Trump has a 4.3 trillion dollar problem....
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 11:55 AM
  9. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bring your points Dennis. I'm going to get lost in the shuffle if you don't boil it down a bit. I want to know what Econ's opinion of my thoughts is, too.
     
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  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe that each USA Jewish family who will consider making a film about their move to Canada.........
    and how they eventually plan on making Aliyah to Israel......
    could become reality film stars over the coming five years and the economic value of their reality film could
    increase and increase and increase in value over the coming years, decades and yes...... centuries!

    Whatever is fully meant by the raising up of King David somehow for the Jewish people.......
    when the feeble residents of Jerusalem become comparable to King David......
    it will become essentially impossible for Gentiles.... to get ahead of Jews......
    when it comes to ethical giving........

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/exodus-usa.520741/

    Exodus USA
     
  11. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Jews are the apple of God's eye. I don't have any issue with that.
     
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  12. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so let me see if I can clear up what I think might be a little confusion on how US dollars end up in the control of foreign interests.

    If a US company builds a factory overseas, let's say in Britain, that company doesn't take dollars with them. Britan only accepts the Pound so a company would have to exchange their dollars with someone who wants dollars and wants to be rid of pounds. Basically, most dollars stay here. When a US company earns money overseas it earns it in the currency of the nation it's in. So that really doesn't take US dollars from the US economy. You might argue that it takes productivity, but let's set that off to the side for the moment.

    The way that large amounts of US currency end up in the hands of, let's say, China is that Chinese businesses sell stuff to US consumers and earn US dollars. Now Chinese companies don't want a lot of US cash, they want to bring their profits back home where the dollar is called the Yuan. So Chinese companies go on the world exchange for currencies called the Foreign Exchange or FOREX and they trade US dollars for Yuan.

    The problem is there are a LOT more companies trying to swap out of dollars and into Yuan then there are companies trying to swap out of Yaun and into dollars.

    If you're following me then it should be obvious what happens when the supply of US dollars is high relative to the supply of Yuan. The scarcity of Yaun makes it more expensive.

    If the value of the yaun goes higher the value of Chinese goods will rise. The result is that Chinese goods would cost about the same as US goods taking away the advantage that China enjoys.

    Sooooooo....The Chinese government creates Yuan and uses newly created Yaun to buy US dollars on FOREX. Ths increases the number of Yuan relative to the US dollar and drives the value of it back down.

    Thus, the Chinese government has bought US dollars and cannot trade it back into US dollars without driving the value of the Yuan higher (making their goods more expensive and negating the advantage they get when they buy our currency)...

    Is your head spinning yet?

    Just understand that it's not companies that move money overseas, it's foreign governments who want a competitive advantage when selling goods in the US. Governments that manipulate their currency do it by creating their own currency and using it to buy US dollars from domestic companies who need to exchange their US dollars for domestic currency (so they can pay workers, taxes purchase supplies etc).

    Right now foreign governments hold about $10 trillion in US dollars that they do very little with. Another $4 trillion in US dollars is held in US government bonds.

    Think of the $10 trillion like a US checking account and bonds like a US savings account as bonds pay a little interest.

    That is an intuitive insight into how money works, but that's not really how things go.

    Businesses don't set prices based on the amount of money in the economy, they set prices based on how much business they do. If they're doing more business, there might be a temptation to raise prices, but competition helps keep prices in check. It's only when supply runs short that there is real pressure to raise prices.

    Creating new money can put pressure on an economy as people have more money use it to buy stuff, but what if the money is saved and not spent? What if a lot of that money ends up in the hands of foreign interests? That won't put a lot of pressure on supply as those things don't increase demand.

    What do you think, did I explain it so it makes any sense at all?
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    That would be retarded in the extreme.

    Are you even aware that the average movie theater release time is now only 28 days? Yep, 1 month is now the average release lifespan of a modern movie. The era of 3 month, 6 month, even 1 year releases died about 20 years ago.

    Are you aware that one of the biggest movies of last year, December 2017's The Last Jedi is only playing in a single theater in the entire LA basin? Yep, that's it, one.

    And why is this?

    Because DVD and digital sales are often a major part of the income. And what is the release date for SW:TLJ?

    Next month, somewhere from mid-late March.

    And there is no prediction how a movie will be received. The last thing you want to do is base your currency on "star power", and find out that your currency is now linked to Ishtar, or Heaven's Gate.

    Actually, money overseas actually increases the value of the supply in the US. That is because the money overseas is essentially sequestered, and has little impact on the amount that is flowing in the US economy.
     
  14. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So, they capped how much can be sent overseas? Can you explain a little more? If this is true, why don't we cap it below 50% of total dollars printed?
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    That is also largely irrelevant in the modern era.

    Today money is one of the most fungible items there is. It is converted and crossed in most cases, so the actual currency is irrelevant. The only time it really effects things like that is when hard cash is sent out of the country.

    Electronic dollars transfered into Won by your bank in a digital transfer are only tokens, and have little impact. Then the amount "held" can be in any currency.
     
  16. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, I had forgotten, but they eventually must come back to the country of origin, just as your Won must come back. Is this correct?
     
  17. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Nope, it is all virtual. It is value that is exchanged, with tokens representing that value.

    The actual token used really does not matter.
     
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  18. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Donor

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    What happens when I exchange a dollar for a cup of tea? What if all I have is five dollars. Now, I have four. I buy two more cups of tea from you. Now I have two. You ask me to pay rent and that's a dollar and fifty cents. Now I have fifty cents. I buy a slice of toast with my last fifty cents. Now, I have nothing. The money may be virtual or it may not. Where do I get more money? If I work and make donuts, and you don't buy them with the dollars I used to pay you, what happens?
     

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