Do you think the things that President Trump is being accused of are wrong?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by eschaff, Oct 31, 2019.

?

Is what the Presidend accused of wrong?

  1. Trump supporter - Yes, it's wrong

    8 vote(s)
    15.1%
  2. Trump supporter - No, nothing wrong with it

    12 vote(s)
    22.6%
  3. Don't support Trump - Yes, it's wrong

    24 vote(s)
    45.3%
  4. Don't support Trump - No, nothing wrong with it

    9 vote(s)
    17.0%
  1. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm curious. If President Trump came out and said, "Yes, I asked the Ukrainian government to open an investigation into Vice President Biden just because I wanted him to look bad because he's the front runner for the Democratic nomination, and yes, I told the Ukrainians that they wouldn't get the aid until they did what I asked," would any of the people on this forum who support the President actually change their mind? I'd like to see if the people who support the President think that what's he's accused of doing is even wrong.
     
    cd8ed likes this.
  2. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So this is a hypothetical? Why is a hypothetical necessary? he didn't say that.

    I didn't think your commentary and the polls matched up so I struggled with giving an answer that fit.

    Based on the transcript and the response from the Ukraine president, I'm of the opinion that he did nothing wrong. (with regards to everything else... the "evidence" i'm generally ignoring the leaked stuff because I'd rather wait for more complete info)

    I'm not convinced that 20 democrats running for 2020 potus are free of corruption, and not convinced that they should be considered untouchable anymore than Trump wasn't considered untouchable in 2015-2016.

    I support investigation into the server/crowdstrike, and given what I saw on Biden's videotaped confession about his quid pro quo I'd ask not only Ukraine but also the FBI to investigate him, perhaps through the FISA process so we could infiltrate his campaign and get some really good dirt.

    FWIW I really like Biden and before he lost his mind (and teeth) I would have voted for him in 2020 because he's better than the rest of the field, (which isn't saying much)

    I'm not good at polls so if you have time can you post this one?

    "If the democrats came out and said they are overstating what really happened because they can't stand him and even if they can't impeach him they want him to look bad because he's the front runner for the 2020 GOP ticket" <would you change your mind?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  3. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not a supporter of the President, but I honestly haven't made up my mind if I think that he did it or not. I'm certainly leaning in that direction, but I'd like to actually see the evidence before I make my decision. He and those around him have done nothing to help their case. I think the
    Purely hypothetical. I'm curious about whether or not there's a point to discussion. If most people think that he did nothing wrong even if he did what the Democrats are accusing him of then there's really no point in a lot of the threads that I see.
     
  4. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    7,664
    Likes Received:
    6,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the number of threads is mind boggling and driving me a bit nuts, I was actually mad at myself for responding to this one lol
    But yes they are all incomplete and repetitive and IMO not one mind has been changed. I'm just about to the point myself where I just need to log out for 30 days and ignore all this fluff.

    I'm not a fan of Trump, voted against him in the primary (rubio, only to block trump) voted against him in the general (johnson, only because Hillary was terrible too) Donald has done all the right things with regards to policy but his personality is just god awful and I can't stand it, he couldn't possibly be less presidential. I come across as a supporter not because I am one but because the never trumpers are so dam ridiculous with their complaints that I end up telling them how wrong they are all day long.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
    C2isme likes this.
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why are you asking that didn't happen.

    If the President of Ukraine said there was no pressure or quid pro quo involved in our discussion would anyone wanting to impeach him change their minds?
     
    yabberefugee, AFM and pol meister like this.
  6. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    As I noted, it's hypothetical.

    That said, it should also be noted that as long as the Russians are pounding on Ukraine the President of Ukraine has a pretty big incentive to stay on the good side of the President of the United States. There's no down side for the President of Ukraine saying exactly what he thinks he wants the President of the United States wants to hear, whether it's truthful or not. I'd be a lot more likely to believe what people say to Congress under oath as getting caught in a lie there can mean jail time.
     
    Meta777 likes this.
  7. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How self-serving but the evidence gives me no reason to not believe what Ukraine is saying which is backed by the transcript. There was nothing criminal, nothing impeachable, PO'd unelected subordinate employees who object to policy are not grounds for impeachment.
     
  8. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    So, are you saying that even if the President came out and said what I posited in the original post then you'd only see it as a policy difference and that you'd think that there would be no wrong doing on the President's part?
     
    Meta777 likes this.
  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I was quite clear in what I said and have no reason to repeat myself.
     
    C2isme likes this.
  10. pol meister

    pol meister Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,903
    Likes Received:
    2,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're creating a hypothetical negative scenario, and then asking people if they think it's wrong. It would be like asking whether or not it would be wrong if "eschaff" had beaten his wife. Would you like to have a poll done on that? Would it needlessly put you on the defensive? Do you think it might put an unfair stain on you?

    Your poll is symbolic of what the current impeachment process is; nothing more than a smear job on the President. I refuse to cast a vote on this sham poll of yours.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
    therooster and Bridget like this.
  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I voted yes. It's obvious what he did was wrong. The big question is it so bad as to rise to impeachable? That question is highly debatable and dependent on his actual intentions.
     
  12. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    So, you're choosing not to participate. That's fine. I'm just curious about whether or not people think what the President is accused of is wrong, and whether or not the results are skewed based on whether or not the responder is a Trump supporter in general, not whether or not they believe that he did what he's accused of.
     
  13. eschaff

    eschaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2019
    Messages:
    270
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Sorry, that's not the way that I read it. In your terms, what I'm asking is this:

    Let's say eschaff admits to everyone that he beats his wife for no reason. Please choose one of the following:
    1. I like eschaff, I think beating your wife is wrong
    2. I like eschaff, I don't think there's anything wrong with beating your wife
    3. I don't like eschaff, I think beating your wife is wrong
    4. I don't like eschaff, I don't think that there's anything wrong with beating your wife.

    I didn't say that eschaff actually beats his wife. I pose a hypothetical that if he did say he beats his wife would you think that it's wrong? Of course I'd hope that everyone would say it's wrong whether or not they like me since I'd hope that everyone can agree that assaulting your wife for no reason is bad. I get the impression from some of the responses I see that some people think that what the President is accused of doing is fine whether he did it or not. I'm curious to see if my impression is correct.
     
    Meta777 and ARDY like this.
  14. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wanting to remain in trump's favor can you imagine the president of Ukraine saying anything else? How would his relations be with the USA be if he said, yeah, trump tried to bribe me? Get real.
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    So now you are assuming the intentions of two different individuals. That is shakey ground legally.
     
  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sorry you don't get to self servingly assign motives to Zelinsky. There is no bribing in the transcript nor was there in practice.
     
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I was quite clear in want I said as I "participated" and I didn't support Trump I voted write in.
     
  18. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It seems there are a lot of people smarter than you who disagree.
     
  19. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    3,077
    Likes Received:
    899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    To lie on another is plain WRONG; If Trump is guilty of what his detractors accuse him, those same accusers are guilty of similar, if not worse. The Uni-party loves to confuse and distort to maintain their power (control) over the populace.
     
  20. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think requiring Ukraine to investigate an American in exchange for aid is wrong. Either giving them aid is in our interest or it isn't, and we should be investigating our people, not coercing Ukraine to do it for us.

    Requiring them to cooperate in our investigation before releasing aid would be entirely justified (what Trump should've done).

    In any case, Im not convinced what Trump is accused of is illegal, whether its 'wrong' or not, nor am I convinced even a little bit the evidence we've been provided indicates Trump even did that.

    And even if he did do something wrong or even something illegal, its not like we're being offered any better alternatives for a president. Gabbard, maybe, if the DNC can kick its it addiction to establishment shills. But that isn't seeming likely.

    Even a criminal Trump would be preferable to the globalist socialist establishment shills propped up to sell American sovereignty out to unelected international technocrats and their corporate authoritarian interests.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  21. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We've already dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into Ukraine... and maybe more (through the IMF).

    Trump wanted to make sure that the Ukraine government (well-known to be among the most corrupt in the world) was NOT just going to take MORE of our money and put it in the hands of the big-wig Ukrainian oligarchs, too. So he wanted an investigation....

    And the first thing that a preliminary look into Ukraine turned up was this Joe Biden/Hunter Biden scandal, and Trump wanted it looked into, quite understandable since it was so blatantly OBVIOUS. Think: a year after Hunter Biden gets thrown out of the Navy Reserves for huffing cocaine, he gets a $50,000 a month job on a Ukrainian energy company -- less than a year after his Daddy puts an ultimatum on the Ukraine government that they either fire a prosecutor who was digging into THAT same energy company's dirt, or else....

    So now? All the Democrats are raising hell about it... and does that surprise anybody...?

    This rotten, stinking Democrat "Star Chamber" inquisition STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
    Seth Bullock and modernpaladin like this.
  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    153,338
    Likes Received:
    39,002
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well if there are you aren't one of them and they are merely engaged in the self serving baseless conjecture as you.
     
  23. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    35,789
    Likes Received:
    8,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That did not happen. Trump asked the new Ukrainian President to investigate corruption with regard to the 2016 election. There was no mention of military funding and the Ukrainian President did not know it had been held up. Biden bragged about his corruption in which he threatened to withhold funding unless the prosecutor who was investigating Burisma was fired.

    Did Ukraine reopen the investigate into Biden's self admitted corruption and were funds withheld from Ukraine ??
     
    Pollycy likes this.
  24. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,180
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh yeh right, you don't like Biden because he's crazy (whereas Trump has never done anything strange) and old (I think one year more than Trump) Is noone on this board willing to admit they really are a Trumper?
     
    Phyxius likes this.
  25. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    41,184
    Likes Received:
    16,180
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It Trump wanted to eat a Trumper's firstborn the Trumper would buy him gourmet Ketchup

    Nixon resigned because he was about to be impeached for just about EXACTLY what Trump did only Nixon did not also try to BRIBE a FOREIGN LEADER with 400 million dollars of OUR TAXES. Nixon was also pretty much blameless otherwise, considered to be not only competent but excellent diplomatically and fairly well liked.

    If all of what Trump has done, (and it is a scurrilous lie that Mueller "exonerated" Trump which is why his offenses there must be included in Trump's impeachment) does not "rise to the level" of an impeachable offense, there simply ARE no impeachable offenses. I realize that Republicans have become of the opinion that this is in fact so, as long as they are Republicans, who now seem to be looking upon the President as a King and themselves as royalty, not civil servants. , and this is why NO Trumper should ever win public office ever again.
     
    Phyxius likes this.

Share This Page