Do you think the things that President Trump is being accused of are wrong?

make no mistake, he got 'plenty' in return

 

don't let that fool you, complacency is corruption

 

How can witnesses get much more credible than what's been presented so far?

And if someone is more guilty of undermining the Constitution than Trump has been I want to know who it could possibly be. The President is not a King, and he is not above the law, particularly not in the area of how he gets elected.

 

What if he came out and said, "Yes, I asked the Ukrainian government to open an investigation into corruption in their country to insure our taxpayer dollars would be used most effectively and if they were bribing family of high level officials here to gain access that needs to be investigated, and yes, I told the Ukrainians that they wouldn't get the aid until they committed in public because their last private assurances did not come through"

Would you support that?

 

Credible as far as what?

 

If the President would personally gain a political advantage over a specific opponent from such a request then no, I wouldn't support it. Please note that I've thought a lot about it and I wouldn't have supported that if the action was committed by President Reagan, whom I voted for, President Bush, whom I voted for, President Clinton, whom I didn't vote for, etc. I do not believe that this request was anything but politically motivated, but even if I believed otherwise and his intentions were pure then this is one of those cases where the ends doesn't justify the means.

 

So political opponents are now immune from investigation even when we have probable cause. I don't recall that applying to candidate Trump.

 

No, they're immune from having their direct opponent using their position of power from asking foreign powers directly to investigate them. If President Trump wants the FBI to investigate then he's free to refer the case. If a foreign power comes to the United States through channels with evidence of a crime on their own then that's great. What the President allegedly did? Not OK.

 

Why is it OK to ask the FBI but not OK to ask the Ukrainians?

 

It's not OK to use either to attack your domestic political rivals, but it's worse to ask a foreign government to do it. Are you incapable of any nuance at all?

 

Clearly an absurd conclusion.

 

So political opponents are now immune from investigation even when we have probable cause. I don't recall that applying to candidate Trump.

That is what you are asserting.

 

As I've stated previously, I don't believe that political opponents are immune from investigation. I believe that they're immune from having the President or his proxies request said investigations from foreign governments. Joe and Hunter Biden will still be there in 11 months (or less if he doesn't get the nomination). If people are so convinced that they were corrupt then they can be investigated after election season. Also, I may be wrong, but I don't believe that President Obama asked a foreign government to investigate candidate Trump.

 

Uh, no. Voters would want corruption investigated before an election I think.

The whole dossier mess is being looked at right? So we will see if the Obama administration had a hand in it.

I wonder why President Obama seems so against Biden running for president?

 

That's fine, but the President can't ask a foreign power to do it for him then.

I think that it is being looked at, but I think that was the DNC … or maybe the Republicans commissioned it but the DNC bought it? I think that President Obama's main concern is that the democrats nominate someone who can beat President Trump. Maybe he doesn't think Vice President Biden is up to the task.

 

It was eschaff who thought it was ok.

Why is it worse to ask a foreign government? If Biden engaged in corrupt activities in Ukraine, it seems natural to ask Ukraine to investigate.

 

I reject the premise that elections grant even temporary immunity. And this is not some private matter between two private parties. It appears to have involved government officials and a pay to play scheme. There is no reason to hold up that investigation.

I also reject the premise that the CIA and FBI would find evidence that the leading and then candidate for President for one of the leading political parties was actually a Russian asset, had been compromised by Russian intelligence and that an investigation needed to be engaged and they would not inform the President. I have heard several intelligence community experts state that ANY such counter intelligence operation would require the President be infomed and kept up to date as a matter of national security.

 

Because TRUMP!?

 

No. Because facts.

 

It seems natural to abuse the office for personal reasons? Uh, no.

 

So you guys get to investigate our president until hell freezes over but we can't return the favor?

 

Democrats went from the kick that the Russians did it, to a new kick that Trump did it. Trump in no way meddled in the past election. I see though that the current Democrats are meddling right now in the 2020 election. Open and notoriously in fact.

 

It is certainly natural. People are naturally selfish.

 

So, did an undisciplined orange oaf behave "naturally"?

 

Yes, and so did a suave, sophisticated black oaf, and in fact all of the oafs we elected for President.