Does a decline in religion/spiritualy, mirror a declining moral state?

Was reading another thread about a decline in religion. My question is simple. Do the morals go away as religion/spirituality is increasingly abandoned by society?

In my years on earth, I certainly can bear witness that morals are going more and more, by the wayside.

 

Nope. In my experience, a questioning of religious authority goes often goes hand-in-hand with moral development. Some of the greatest moral societal advancements I can think of have all coincided with secularism.

 

We now have 60 some odd genders? As atheism grows?

 

So what? Why should I care about what gender labels people give themselves when they aren't hurting anyone in the slightest?

Under atheism: 60 genders.
Under theism: slavery, divine right of kings, religious persecution, no freedom of speech, etc. etc.

Yeah, I'll take the 60 genders any day of the week.

 

That's a pretty selective synopsis of a very broad topic.

 

As was the whole atheism = 60 genders argument . . . which is literally the closest thing to a specific argument you've offered.

 

OK, Atheism encourages a life with no responsibility for ones life deeds. It just assumes that the lights go out, Karma hits a brick wall.


Karma crosses dimensions.

And it was by no means an "argument" but rather a simple observation.

 

But not a good one. Most atheists will acknowledge 1) psychological reprocussions for one's actions in life 2) other earthly consquences. And for most religions, consequences can be washed away simply by changing one's dogma. And let's not forget the fact that your argument relies entirely on consequentialism (and ego-centric consequentialism to boot), which many atheists and theists reject.

 

Sure is not describing Christianity.

 

What amoral developments are you talking about? And how do they differ from the immoral concepts of the past?

 

That's a great question!
I was born in the hey day of Lynard Skynard.

It seems I grew up in a world of increasingly immoral behavior.

Morals seem to be old "fashioned".

 

Religion is the imitator of morals not the innovator.

 

No. The research I've done on the issue pertains specifically to Christianity. Christians are indeed leaving 'the Church' at a slowly but surely increasing rate. But they're not leaving 'Christianity.' For the most part, they're leaving 501C3 'megachurches' and either holding at-home Bible Studies instead, or continuing their faith independently. The reason is usually the same- Church just doesn't seem 'genuine' anymore. My theory (partly based on my own experience) is that the dynamic of government authority using religious doctrine for social control is becoming increasingly detectable and turning folks off to established religion, and turning them on to real spiritualism (or perhaps merely showing them that there is a difference).

Would it be accurate to say that the morals that you see 'are going more and more, by the wayside' are the voluntary ones; ie- things people do unto themselves, like substance use/abuse, frivolous sex and foul language, or are you talking more about things people do to others; like deceit, theft and violence?

I ask because its been my experience that Christians are moving away from expecting to be judged by what they do, and instead expecting to be judged by what they do to and for others. And that seems to run fairly counter to the atmosphere in most Churches (and counter to God's wishes, imo) where everyone judges eachother primarily on how they present themselves rather than how they interact with others.

 

So you’re not serious? All good, Gimme Three Steps.

 

Very serious.

 

Historically, in empires a decline in religion went hand in hand with a decline in morality. But its not clear that a decline in one caused the decline in the other.

When a nation or empire is young and rising in power on the world stage, its people are united and focused on a common national goal. Part of that is a common religion, an accepted social structure, a national identity and a sense of exceptionalism, and a willingness to put the advancement of the nation ahead of the individual.

As the nation/empire peaks in power, it loses the elements that bind it together. The population fractures, there is a shift in focus to the self. Part of that is religion has less of a role in the society, or religion is taken less seriously. But its not clear if the shift to greed and self results in less interest in religion and lower morals, or the decline in religion results in the shift to self and lower morals.

So history doesn't give a firm answer to the question.

But the idea that a religion makes people answerable to God and keeps people moral has weight. Its a solid concept but its not proven.

 

Religions do not teach morality, they teach obedience and loyalty to the Boss. You will be hard pressed to find more than a handful of good moral teachings in the entire Bible. And there are probably even fewer in the Koran and none in the Book of Mormon.

 

You might just as well say that religion encourages a view in which responsibility is only true insofar that it corresponds to punishment or praise after death. I am responsible for the well-being of others, not because I might get punished if I don't, but because it's the right thing to do. There is no shortage of non-religious people who take proper responsibility for their life deeds. If you study those non-religious people who go bad, Stalin, McVeigh, Pol Pot etc. it is not enough to be non-religious, you also need the idea that the only possible source of morality is god, which is an idea actively spread by religion. Atheism doesn't supply that belief.

Atheism encourages a life with no responsibility of ones life deeds only insofar that religion has given you the idea that morality hinges on God.

So then the question becomes, can religion guarantee that people won't lose their faith? Society seems to suggest no. Then maybe we should stop spreading the idea that immoral behaviour would be ok as long as you didn't believe in God.

 

Are you suggesting we need to stop seeking knowledge in order to preserve a religion?

Wouldn't a sound religion hold up under the advent of knowledge?

 

When did religion get morals?

 

I would not call all the gender non sense "knowledge" more like a delusional denial of basic biology.

 

Just the sermon on the mount contains more than a few.

 

Please cite science that you see as delusional.

 

I believe that our children and grandchildren will end up with certain aspects of morality........ that may not fit with what my generation valued most, (I am 59) but.......... they will end up with something that could be the foundation for a vastly better society and economy by the year 2185.

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04

Kinda reminds me of:

Malachi 4:5

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

 

Morals don't go away. The bad things humans do will always be bad. The other things that religions like to claim as morals aren't really morals, just rules to limit human nature.