Does it bother you that Trump has attacked USA's most important ally since WW2?

As long as you are in the treaty you have an obligation to defend others. The moment you withdraw from the treatu that obligation stops. The US is still in the treaty and thus still has the obligations.

For (*)(*)(*)(*) sake its not rocket science! What is it you dont understand???

 

lol!!!!! What is it you don't understand about "you and your treaty can both (*)(*)(*)(*) off"?

Sorry, treaties are things that can be broken right there and then, or later when we have time. We can even make them, but they aren't set in stone. It's just something a president signs that he acknowledges is important to him. Once that president leaves office, you can take it up with him, but I don't know what good that's going to do.

 

Then you have NO point ranting against Trump wanting to change or eliminate the treaty agreements regarding NATO. Or are you claiming Trump is going to go into some time warp and back in time changing it in the past?

 

You two are so dim its unbelievable... has ANYONE ever said that its impossible for tge USA to leave nato? No, no one said that. In fact I said many times here, "if you dont like the treaty you can leave".

What you two geniuses claimed was that "the usa doesnt have any obligations". WRONG, you do have obligations because of the treaty, which you are still part of.

What is it that is so bloody hard to understand? Until tou leave the treaty you have obligations! its very simple. And you can leave whenever you want, so what the hell are you (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing and whining about??

 

I personally believe that if the US did leave NATO it would disintegrate.

 

IT bothers me a great deal.

Last week, Trump made a show (or at least his surrogates did), of wanting to put the bust of Winston Churchill back in the White House. Never mind that the British never offered it to him.

The European Union was Churchill's idea.

But in the smoke and mirrors world of the far right wing, getting a bust of the man is a great gesture, even though the man who is taking credit for the gesture is trashing Churchill's (and our) legacy.

- - - Updated - - -

When did they stop becoming independent? >>>MOD EDIT Off Topic Removed<<<

 

Placing foreign troops in Poland is a gesture, they are far too few in number to be anything else and Poland herself has an army of over 100,000. Of course Russia will see this as a provocation as would America if foreign troops were placed on her boarders.
Neither you nor I can tell if Russia has any real intention of attacking Poland though putting even a handful of foreign troops there doesn’t help.

Why I say that if Russia attacked the West European nations it would escalate into a nuclear war is the fact that France and the UK are nuclear powers and would use them.

Forget the gung ho stuff, a full out nuclear war between America and Russia would destroy both and where’s the sense in that.

 

There's no bullying going on. He thinks they are stronger apart.
The EU has served it's purpose.

There is no need to have an exclusive club that shuns others that can't get membership.

 

Sadly it is that very line of thought that leads to the next war weakness combined with wealth makes you an inviting target for would be world beaters.

 

well now that you have publicly demonstrated complete ignorance of the topic.............

 

Trump and FOX News deserve one another, with their lies. They will both self-destruct together.

 

So REALLY your complaint is your claim is that one provision of the treaty is that it is prohibited for anyone to criticize NATO and prohibited to even discuss how much each member participates and pays, right? That is what your rant is about.

 

His messages are part of the current "progressive" pro-war, Joseph McCarthy Red Scare crap, now claiming the EU was created because of the USSR.

Actually, the EU charter - long after the end of WWII - does not even mention ANY common military defense goals whatsoever nor do any member nations have any military obligation under the EU whatsoever.

Is that what is taught in the Canadian educational system?

- - - Updated - - -

Curious how the Democratic Party claims we should love Castro and hate Putin. More curious is how many Democrats go along with that contradiction.

 

Yep, there's little doubt about that.

Didn't you read what I wrote? If american troops are in poland, that means Russia will unavoidable face a devestating war if they choose to invade poland, which means that they will not want to invade poland. On the other hand, if there are no americans in poland, there is a chance that the USA will just abandon poland in case of a russian attack, and therefore it makes more sense more russia to attack.

re-read my previous post.

heh, yeah you americans would know wouldn't you, since you were attacked twice for that exact reason..

if you want to discuss your stupid strawman arguments, you can go talk with yourself and stop wasting others' time. No, you can critisize anything you want.. I'm just saying that, as a matter of FACT, the USA does have an obligation to defend others. And that is true UNTIL the moment you withdraw from the treaty. This isn't complicated. No matter how much you people whine and (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about how you wish things were, that doesn't change how things are now. The USA has obligations. period. Therefore your claim to the contrary is wrong.

EU started as the european coal and steel community. Why those two things? because they are needed in war. The idea was to intertwine the economies of europe so much that a war would be unthinkable, and to let all countries see what everyone else was doing, so no one could secretly build up a huge army.

thy ignorance supriseth me not.

 

No because at the beginning of the EU imost European states the government ran the steel and coal one should also note that at the time large scale steel production was impossible without equally large scale coal production.

 

If that's what will make you feel better, then okay. Just so long as we are clear that obligations are not responsibilities. If the SHTF and europe comes to president Trump with a paper saying we have an obligation to help protect Europe, I'm sure he'll make it formal by having the shreds of the treaty notarized right there in the oval office.

You might even get an autographed 'Make America Great Again' cap as a souvenir.

 

Who knew WWII ended in the 90's.
Learn something new every day

- - - Updated - - -

The EU is a banking cartel designed to strip the wealth from the citizens and transfer it to the boys in Basil

 

You are ate up...

Does it bother you that obama put a knife in our most important allies back?

Nihilists tend to be liberal.

 

How does this refute whatvi said?

 

I believe you are right. Trump appears to be quite naive when it comes Putin and Russia. This is why Putin wanted Trump as President.. Clinton had vast experiences in foreign affairs, First Lady, Senator, SecState, and two-time Presidential candidate. Like Putin, she was a hardened veteran of foreign issues. Trump is a complete novice. Making business deals is a far cry from foreign affairs issues. Putin got his man.

Trump is pushing for the breakup of the EU. Making deals with individual countries is a lot easier than making deals with the EU. The EU has a slightly larger economy than the U.S. The EU would make a major tougher trading partner than the individual countries. Trump also wishes to weaken NATO.

Well, guess what, those are the very same goals that Putin has but for vastly different reasons.

 

Because it was never about the military since Military expenditures as a percent of GDP have declined almost every year since WWII through out all of what we used to call Western Europe.

Oh and for what it's worth a hundred K Poles isn't much more than a tripwire force itself. If the Russians come and come hard they will send at least six times that and probably more along with a humongous artillery barrage and airmobile units. It is almost certain that it will be all over for Poland long before the west can get fully mobilized Some how I don't think France Britian or the US is going to start a nuclear exchange over a fait accompli.. Now the good news, such as it is, poland, if she is on Russia's wish list which seems to me to be more than a bit unlikely, is going to be way down the priorities list. I would be far more concerned about the Baltic states and Belarus, all of which have exactly the same vulnerabilities as the Ukraine.

One last thing Trump doesn't have to try to break up the EU Brussels is managing that quite well on it's own. You've already lost Britain, Italy maybe going soon and Greece may not be far behind. In fact the whole southern tier seems a bit restive. And It is likely to be essentially a dead letter if Le Pen wins in France as also looks possible.

 

o
Clinton is the only candidate for president who openly and often vowed that she would have our air force directly attack the Russian air force - in short vowing to literally go to war against Russia.

It is interesting that you openly want the USA to be handicapped in trade issues with Europe. What other ways to you wish to weaken the USA's economic in the world market?

Why do so many Democrats express not only their hatred of the USA but hundreds of ways they want the USA and all Americans hurt and punished?

 

Where did you read that?

 

The EU brought the majority of European countries under one currency, the EURO. The EU is a central bank for European countries.


"The European Union. It was created to keep the peace in Europ since WW2 ended."

 

Personally I don’t think that Russia has any desire to attack Poland, the reason being that it doesn’t make any military or economic sense. Putin has cultivated Trump in the hope of getting the crippling sanctions applied on Russia after the Ukraine episode to be lifted.
Why then would he want to mount an attack on Poland when at the very least those sanctions would be more than doubled?
As for America they have 800 bases worldwide with thousand’s of personal, it figures that they have to find them something to do. Add to that those masses of unwanted equipment being churned out by their grateful arms producers.
So having exhausted the supply of small wars they start prodding one of the big boys.

It’s curious that although they set themselves up as ‘Leader of the Free World’ and self appointed ‘Policemen of the World’, they appear to be easily convinced that they are under threat i.e. Isis is ready in invade and Russia is still a communist threat etc. when they’re more in danger from they’re fellow Americans.