Does society actually wish to get better?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Xenamnes, Sep 28, 2019.

  1. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And at the same time- people are getting lazier and dumber. Politicians can't say that of course, but they know it. Basic skills like reading, writing, spelling- are miserable. Having pride in who you are seems to be considered some king of offense. People not only lack respect for others, they lack respect for themselves and thus for any of the values their grandparents would have lived by. We are increasingly obese, do not groom ourselves or present ourselves with any pride, we disfigure the only piece of natural art we will ever own with tattoos and piercings- most of them meaningless, like so much graffiti that can't be washed off or removed. This lack of core values is what is allowing many to embrace ludicrous political ideas like their were rational- people are loosing the ability to think logically or critically.

    In terms of fundamental education skills such as reading, math, science- the US now ranks around #30 on the list of industrial nations. That is continuing to decline. So we have fewer bright and ambitious people- and more dull and unmotivated people. Recipe for tyranny....
     
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  2. Shook

    Shook Well-Known Member

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  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Government is not capable of addressing the underlying problems that are plaguing society, as it is currently a part of the problem. Investing the time, effort, and funding to address the underlying issues with society does not mean providing the government with more and more power to mismanage as it sees fit, as doing such is part of the issue. The people do not wish to address what is wrong with society, so instead they want the government to do it for them so they do not have to worry about it. It is a turning away of personal responsibility, because society does not wish to give up its comfort or convenience in the name of doing whatever may be necessary to get better.

    Again. Whether the true responsibility of such incidents pertain to the availability of the implements used, or to the perpetrator that decided to make use of said implements for their own goals, such is ultimately not relevant to actually addressing the question at hand. Does society truly wish to get better? For all of the outrage that is presented in the wake of various atrocities, society demonstrates nothing that suggests an actual desire to put an end to these atrocities occurring, simply because the necessary steps for going about achieving meaningful change is simply too much work, and too inconvenient.

    It is a question that goes far beyond the premise of what the correct course of action is. It is a question of whether or not society truly wants the correct course of action, or if it is more content to do nothing and simply complain so it has something to occupy itself with so it can believe it is doing something.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  4. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To me, that is a complicated explanation of the right answer. Correct, but most can't understand the depth.

    People spend their lives looking for the easy way, seeking to avoid responsibility, seeking to avoid consequences of their own actions instead of adjusting those actions. This human weakness enables other factors which only magnify the consequences and bad effects. Lawyers tell us that if anything unpleasant has happened to us, it's somebody else's fault, and we are entitled to compensation. That has become a plague- a money mine threatening all industries and creating massive product insurance costs, all of which must be built into product costs without increasing benefits. That is precisely why our medical costs (and thereby your medical insurance) are 4-5 times what many other nations have. If you doubt this, not that Japan needs only 7 lawyers per 100,000 population. England is second in the world- with 83; 12 times that of Japan. America? We have 287.

    There is little profit in promoting responsibility- but there is profit in promoting dependence and weakness. It's also true with politics. Strong people who think for themselves and don't have their hand out want nothing from government but the core services it is supposed to provide.Those who feel entitled want government be a sort of nanny who takes care of children. Dependent people will not vote for a candidate who encourages them to be self-sufficient and independent. The problem is that children who are allowed to grow up rather than being raised to be men and women, just grow up chronologically. Thinking more like children- but they can and do vote.

    I often think of this quote from a professor Alexander Tytler in England, nearly 300 years ago. As you read the last few lines, you can tell which phase we are in right now.
    It is possible for us to alter this course- IF we will. It is a choice, not for one man, but for all of us or at least the majority of us to make.

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.


    The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:
    • From bondage to spiritual faith;
    • From spiritual faith to great courage;
    • From courage to liberty;
    • From liberty to abundance;
    • From abundance to complacency;
    • From complacency to apathy;
    • From apathy to dependence;
    • From dependence back into bondage."
     
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  5. Shook

    Shook Well-Known Member

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    You are merely advocating growing the government and you won't admit it. Government is the problem.

    Well, you are going back on what you said then.

    Government, government growth and government usurption of what used to be the responsibility of individuals are large pieces of the problem.

    What to do but sue your parents and get counseling for all your woes in the monitored privacy of your safe space.

    Especially schools have for years been conditioning fear into parents to not intervene into the work of the indoctrination system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  6. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Not to disregard the rest of your post, but I agree with this statement 10 fold. The sheer amount of folks I see who refuse, and I mean absolutely REFUSE to admit "I messed up" is staggering. I was having this discussion with a good friend of mine recently and she was explaining how people make "mistakes". True, some people make mistakes, the problem is the way so many people incorrectly define "mistake".

    A mistake is when I lock my keys in the car, or forget my wallet at home, etc. It's hard to get somebody to even use the incorrect definition of mistake when talking about themselves. And many of those who do use the term use it wrong. This is just from my personal experience and dealing with folks I personally know, but they didn't make "mistakes", they made decisions that were poor. And having to now deal with the consequences of their DECISIONS upsets them and causes them to lash out at an "unfair" society. Not everybody of course, many folks' lot in life is the result of external factors of which they had zero control. But for many, especially the ones I personally know, no the world isn't unfair, you just messed up, badly.

    My sister is a prime example. NOTHING in her life is ever her own fault, it's always because someone else did or didn't do something. Her lot in life is the direct result of a string of poor decisions she has made for decades. But if you ask her, every single thing is someone elses fault. And the decisions she has made have led to a pretty bad lot in life, the decisions I made have led to a decent lot in life. And she HATES ME to this day. In her mind the success I have is the direct result of a massive amount of external support from other people. The reality is that every single thing I have is the direct result of my own doing. I paid for college by working full time and going to school full time, and every single item in my house from the pencils on my table to the truck in my garage were bought via money I made my getting a real job. She is upset because she took out a massive loan (with our father beating his head against the wall in agony) to pursue a "dream job" which amounted to basically a certification in something like "Art". It wasn't Art it was something else but you get the picture. And to this day, decades later, I STILL receive phone calls from debt collectors looking for her because her DECISION to "follow her dreams" didn't exactly amount to making any actual money in the real world.

    That's not her fault though, in her words "society should pay people to do what they love". Shes the classic example of someone who gets an absolutely worthless degree in something "fun" and walks out into the real world and realizes that underwater basket weaving isn't a real job. But she had a blast in college, worked at a theme park, partied with friends, etc. I did the opposite, I went to college, paid for it out of my own pocket, lived on my own, and didn't get to have a "blast" in my late teens. Fast forward the clock and now I'm a "piece of ****" because I refuse to drain my own savings account to pay off her massive debt because "you're greedy and you aren't a real brother" lol. You work 60+ hours per week every week to earn a paycheck in a very taxing job? So? Give me all of your money because I ****ed up early on in life even when everybody around me told me not to do that.

    That's the problem with people, this is just from my experience dealing with people around me, mostly my family, so my pool from which to draw conclusions is limited to that. They want to be able to do whatever they want, and suffer no consequences for it, and NEVER have to admit that they made poor decisions. Or even if they make poor decisions there should be a massive safety net OWED to them to prevent them from falling on their face. Problem is there was a safety net, we TOLD YOU, but that shouldn't count. They should be able to disregard any and all logic, listen to nobody, do whatever they want, and not be allowed to fail.

    I would love to follow my dreams. My passion is fishing. Society should pay me to fish, the same amount that I get paid right now doing my current job that isn't as fun. There should be an accredited bachelors degree in recreational Bass fishing that pays middle class income. The fact that society doesn't provide that is bullshit and the world isn't fair. If I spend my time bass fishing hoping to get good enough to enter tournaments and live off the prize money and I end up not ever getting that good or not winning then society should have a safety net in place to pay me anyway...And because that's not a real thing, my family members are *******s because they aren't collectively pooling together their life savings to fund my "passion". Even though my father DID drain his life savings to pay for me to goto college and get a real degree for a real job I didn't want to do that because that's "hard and boring". And then he had the AUDACITY to not give me that check to pursue my passion of recreational bass fishing because he doesn't support my dreams! How dare he! So I did it on my own! And now I'm broke. And those around me who worked hard for their entire lives and made better decisions than I did BETTER give me their money. Or I HATE THEM!

    As cynical as that sounds, that's literally what happened which is why that particular statement hit home with me.
     
  7. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The truth is that wise men have known all through history that to change life, you have to change yourself- and unless you accept responsibility for yourself completely, you will never have power over your own life.
    Sadly- the rules of life that really work are both few and simple, and have been known forever. But for them to work for you, you must live by them- and the number one rule is being responsible for yourself.
     
  8. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    What is not comprehended on the part of yourself, is that there is a symbiotic relation between what is referred to as government, and what is referred to as government. The two are intrinsically linked to one another, and it is not possible for one to exist without the other also existing in some form or another. If there are problems with one, then there are problems with both.
     
  9. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is a difference between wishing and wanting. Society wishes to see less violence, but does not want it bad enough to do what it takes. Instead, laws are passed, warm feelings are felt, and evil thrives.
     
  10. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    230 years was a good run.
     

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