Dying in a leadership vaccum

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by CenterField, Oct 9, 2020.

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  1. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Sweden.
     
  2. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    What we still have to confirm about Covid19;

    a. The efficacy of forthcoming vaccines
    b. The long term effects of those who’ve been affected.

    What else? Certainly not its politicization.....Enough!
     
  3. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In the U.S., certainly not implementable during an election year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  4. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. I never talk politics with my patients. If one tries to bring the conversation to a political topic, I say "let's rather focus on your health." I don't make political comments to staff in my hospital either. I closed my Facebook account. At work, one needs to be professional, period. Personal opinions don't belong there.
     
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  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Who would threaten thier jobs?
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Are you trying to claim that some lives do not matter? We have closed off Western Australia for months now and the Northern Territory and Queensland are still restricted to travellers even within
    Australia and that is because we all have highly highly vulnerable indigenous populations. And this is from a country that treated its indigenous population worse than any other country on this planet.
     
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  7. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Excellent points that match many of my previous thoughts about it. I progressively turned MORE against the current administration but in the beginning I posted many times excusing it of responsibility, given that this virus is hard to control. But with the accumulation of more and more mistakes and intentional misleading statements and poor leadership, my opinion soured.

    I've posted before, comprehensive analyses of what I think went wrong, TOGETHER with comprehensive analyses of what I believe the administration did right. Like you said, it is rare to see this kind of attitude here. Anyway, these posts are back there in my posting history. Sorry but right now I don't feel like repeating this analysis. The NEJM made many of the points I had made before. Just briefly, things that were done right include the Warp Speed initiative, allocation Navy hospital ships to New York, using the threat of the Defense Production Act to put pressure on 3M, etc.

    Also, I've posted extensively assigning blame to pretty much everybody... the federal administration, state administrations regardless of being R or D, mayors, AND the American people. We all have a share of responsibility for how things went wrong. Like you said, it's not a party issue. The virus doesn't know parties.
     
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  8. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Australia closed internal borders and in fact we in QLD still are restricting travel fro Victoria even though it has almost stopped its recent outbreak
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...w-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704?nw=0

    https://www.health.gov.au/news/heal...ic-travel-restrictions-and-remote-area-access

    We locked down HARD and we still lost people But nowhere near the numbers we would have lost if we hadn’t.
     
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  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Whenever $Trillions of government spending are on the table politicization is inevitable.
    In Sweden they apparently just followed their Constitution. Shocking.

    "Professor Neil Ferguson, of Imperial College London, revealed he had the 'greatest respect' for the Scandinavian nation, which has managed to suffer fewer deaths per capita than the UK.
    He made the comments at a House of Lords Science and Technology Committee today during his first public appearance since flouting stay at home rules to have secret trysts with his married mistress last month.
    The epidemiologist - dubbed Professor Lockdown - has come under fire for his modelling which predicted half a million Britons could die from Covid-19 and heavily influenced the UK's decision to rush into a nationwide quarantine."
    THE DAILY MAIL, Neil Ferguson whose grim warnings prompted Boris Johnson to order TOTAL LOCKDOWN admits Sweden may have suppressed Covid-19 to the same level but WITHOUT draconian measures, Professor admitted there is lessons to be learned from Sweden moving forward
    Sweden dodged major crisis without locking down and seeing economy implode,
    Professor Ferguson's team predicted staggering amount of UK deaths in March
    Modelling thought to have single-handedly shocked UK into imposing lockdown,
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Ferguson-admits-greatest-respect-Sweden.html
     
  10. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

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    No, I am saying that this is an un-necessary politicization of a medical issue, and this coming from supposed well-respected medical journals.

    By saying things such as....
    "These lapses accelerated the spread of disease through the country—particularly in highly vulnerable communities that include people of color, where deaths climbed disproportionately to those in the rest of the population."
    .....
    these publications are putting the emphasis on race, feeding into the BLM trope just as most of the media has done, using virtually the same language. The reality is that deaths from COVID are more a factor of co-morbibities than of race. The effect of this virus on these communities is more a reflection of the risk factors within these communities than one of race. To suggest otherwise, while politically correct these days, actually does a disservice to these communities as it ignores the actual reasons behind these numbers, thereby doing nothing to address the real reasons behind outcome disparities.

    For example, high blood pressure and heart disease (both co-morbidities) are more prevalent in minority communities. Is this political? What would voting for Joe Biden do to change that? Remember these articles are political endorsements.

    Below is some data regarding heart disease. It clearly shows that lifestyle factors affect heart health and the communities of color demonstrate fewer healthy lifestyle factors than whites.

    The AHA has published the Life’s Simple 7 metrics of cardiovascular health (CVH). One goal of the campaign is to improve different metrics and behaviors. Using National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) data, social risk factors and non-white race were associated with worse cardiovascular health (fewer ideal metrics) [24]. A similar group of healthy lifestyle factors was evaluated in the ARIC cohort where the prevalence of 5–7 ideal cardiovascular health metrics was 3.6 % for African-American men, 4.2 % for African-American women, 10.5 % for white men, and 18.7 % for white women [25]. Consistent with studies in African-Americans, the prevalence of ideal CVH is lower in Hispanics compared to non-Hispanic whites [26]. In addition to identifying disparity, these studies emphasized that all groups can have lower rates of adverse outcomes if ideal CVH is achieved [27].

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4828242/

    It should come as no surprise that groups with higher identifiable risk factors would be more adversely affected by this disease. My criticism of the NEJM and Scientific American stands.
     
  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    There is a bloody strong correlation between skin colour and COVID deaths
    upload_2020-10-12_22-38-25.png
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-52453782
    upload_2020-10-12_22-38-51.png
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-f...d-19-deaths-are-even-bigger-than-they-appear/
    There is speculation that it has to do with relative levels of vitamin d
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And vitamin D also can cause heart failure
    https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/93/10/3927/2627359

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1093/eurjhf/hfr175

    Plus other socio economic factors
     
  13. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    While thinking people laugh at nonsensical notions like that, the Trumpsters all think it’s gospel.

    After all, they’re the same people telling each other that global warming is just a secret international plot by scientists in lab coats to scam the world into giving them grant money.
     

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