Dying words: This [Covid] isn't real

and Pfizer did not take Trump's warp speed money as they felt it would slow them down....

 

It's probably not that they were afraid it would slow them down. Pfizer is a company with a market capitalization of 210 billion dollars and yearly sales of 54 billion dollars. They spent 2 billion dollars developing their vaccine (they can afford it, and will recover this money several times over with sales). They didn't NEED the Warp Speed money, unlike a startup like Moderna; so, they didn't want to be tied up in their ability to sell to multiple markets and control their sale prices. Pfizer has VAST resources, much BIGGER than the resources made available to Warp Speed. So why in the hell would they tie themselves up? It's just a business decision, and a wise one to boot.

Given the above, like I said, if the Warp Speed Initiative had never happened, Pfizer would still finish their vaccine up as fast as they did.

But the thing is, Pfizer alone won't be able to supply the entire US market, given that they also have numerous commitments to sell to other countries. So it is good that we do have Moderna too, and Johnson and Johnson, and others. The more vaccines, the better, because not only these vaccines need two doses and we are 330 million people so even if only half of our population accepts the vaccine we still need 330 million doses, but also, we don't know how long the immunity will last. If it doesn't last that long people will need boosters... creating the need for hundreds of millions more. So, it isn't advisable to put all our eggs in one basket. Thus why the Warp Speed Initiative invested in multiple vaccines (6, or 8 depending on how you count),

 

no companies turn down billions unless there is a reason, they thought it would slow them down, so they did not take it

you're right, Trump only pr-ordered 50 million doses, will need more then that

 

Where did you get that the reason is a slow down? For me, the reason is that they didn't want to be pegged to a price structure dictated by the US government as a condition of funding.

 

they wanted the science to drive their vaccine, not the politics of Trump

 

Again, what's your evidence? In what way Trump's politics negatively influenced vaccine companies? The administration can negatively influence the FDA and the CDC but not a private vaccine maker.

I don't know, FreshAir, we're on the same side regarding Trump but what you've been saying makes little sense. I think you are 100% decided to blame Trump even when he did something right (for a change) and nothing that I say will dissuade you.

That's a prejudice. Pre = in advance. Judice = judgment. You made the advance decision that the Warp Speed initiative is no good because it's Trump's, and won't let go of it.

This position of yours was made clear when I posted the list of companies directly funded by the WSI and you said the government is merely a customer, when the government is a cost-sharing partner. You also seem to fail to consider that the Moderna vaccine is a Moderna/NIH vaccine. The NIH was DIRECTLY involved in the science behind this vaccine and also helped the company with phase 3 expertise. Moderna thus far had NEVER held a phase 3 trial for ANY product. They actually made mistakes that had to be corrected by the NIH experts that acted as consultants. Actually Moderna had NEVER placed ANY product in the market. Had NEVER had any product approved by the FDA.

I'm feeding you information that frankly you seem to ignore, but this is not changing your mind... In my opinion, this is because you've decided in advance to blame Trump. This doesn't work for me. I criticize where I see reason for criticism, but I praise and give credit when I see reason for praise and credit.

Sure, Pfizer, a giant big pharma company, acted independently.

But we would NOT be having the Moderna/NIH vaccine about to be approved and distributed, anytime soon (or ever) if not for the Warp Speed Initiative and the National Institutes of Health. This is crystal clear and not in dispute. It is a huge success story. Every American who will be vaccinated with the Moderna product, will owe a debt of gratitude to the Warp Speed Initiative and the Trump Administration, at least in this particular regard.

Novavax is also a small company. Their net worth is now 5.9 billion (it went sharply up thanks to their Covid-19 vaccine business). Even though they have experienced enormous valuation, this pales in comparison to Pfizer's 210 billion. And also, do observe that as recently as 11/18/2019, Novavax was only worth 90 million dollars. So, that's another success story.

Previous to this, Novavax's track record wasn't brilliant. They had a proprietary adjuvant called Novavax AB and that's helpful, and that's how they started. Then they made the ResVax, a respiratory syncytial virus vaccine, and it failed phase III trials in 2006. The company had to downsize and fire 30% of their workforce, and they lost 85% of their market value. In 2019 they tried again to iron out the problems with the ResVax, and failed again, suffering a huge devaluaton and were threatened with delisting from NASDAQ. They had to sell their factory... Then they started to recover, when in January 2020 they were successful in getting their flu vaccine called NanoFlu through phases I and II. They also tried an Ebola vaccine, not getting too much traction. Do you know how many vaccines Novavax was able to approve in their 33 years trying? NONE. Zero.

Just to give you an idea: they developed the ResVax through a grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation worth 89 million dollars (and failed). Compare to what they got from Warp Speed: 1.6 billion dollars. Now, they are succeeding. Again a success story that is CLEARLY linked to the support they got from Warp Speed.

Novavax purchased in May 2020, for 167 million dollars, a vaccine factory in the Czech Republic previously owned by Praha Vaccines (a level 3 safety facility), to produce their Covid-19 vaccine NVX-CoV2373.

See? Novavax in November 2019 was worth 90 million and had no factory... and now they are able to buy this factory depicted below for 167 million dollars and get back in business. It would NEVER have happened without Warp Speed.

 

sure, here is a link, I was just going by memory, but here is a link

I give Trump credit for warp speed, but not the creation of the vaccine, that goes to the scientists - and in this case this company took no money from Trump, they did though promise to sell him some after they created it, so he gets credit for placing the order too, which is a good thing that he thought ahead there

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ine-s-funding-came-from-berlin-not-washington

“I wanted to liberate our scientists from any bureaucracy,” Bourla said in an interview on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sept. 16. “When you get money from someone, that always comes with strings. They want to see how we are growing to progress, what types of moves you are going to do. They want reports. I didn’t want to have any of that.”

“Basically I gave them an open checkbook so that they can worry only about scientific challenges, not anything else. And also, I wanted to keep Pfizer out of politics, by the way,” Bourla added.

 

people may have taken more precautions if Trump want's telling them to pack the churches and playing down the dangers

 

And dissing masks at every turn. Downplaying the pandemic and convincing people it wasn't real. Telling then it will magically disappear. Constantly linking the pandemic to some crackpot conspiracy theory. Dissing actual experts like Fauci. Hiring charlatans like Scott Atlas.

Honestly, t his is all so obvious that one cannot take their denials serious anymore. If people still can't see that trump has caused this disaster, then the world is too complicated for them and they should just stop voting, stop posting, and listen to what they are told by most any liberal who knows what they are talking about.

 

It's called science. The Virus doesn't care about your optimism.

 

and Trump has not been to a task force meeting in almost 6 months, but he will definitely take credit for others work and take no responsibility for his own handling of the virus

 

But unlike other contenders, it is not looking for federal funding to accelerate clinical development. There’s a reason for that,
Young [Pfizer's Chief Business officer] said at BIO.

“We made an active decision not to seek government funding because we didn't want this to slow down our partnership with
BioNTech and to slow the progress moving a vaccine construct into the clinic,” Young said. “Our focus was to move as
quickly as possible and we really didn't want to … spend a month negotiating with the U.S. government.”​

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/bio-what-s-roi-a-covid-19-vaccine-we-have-no-idea-says-pfizer

 

Your memory serves you right. Pfizer's chief business officer made a specific reference to not wanting to slow things down.
Just posted quote and link in post #112.

 

Fair enough. Thanks for adding this piece of information. I'm sure, though, the CEO thought of the bottom line too. He gave this PC explanation but most likely the main unconfessed reason is that he wanted freedom to establish the price of his product. I mean, money is always the driver, in a CEO's performance, and Big Pharma is not an industry known for compassion.

 

Ah, that makes more sense. Because not wasting time was important, the one crossing the finishing line first will profit more. Having approved vaccines will also delay recruiting for competitors' phase 3 trials as individuals will prefer the proven vaccine than enrollment in uncertain trials to get a 50-50 chance of getting the vaccine versus placebo, so it's important to finish first.

 

And yet, it isn't "science" that is pushing the fear here, it's you. And frankly, if you looked at the science ,they aren't supporting your mongering. Just you. How novel...

 

We go by a data driven, science-based approach here in Australia. Seems to have worked well. There are times to be careful (afraid) and times to be carefree (optimistic). Doing what you feel like doing on a given day doesn't work too well.

The virus doesn't care either way

 

What has worked well? Have folks died? Does Australia truly believe that removing liberty from it's citizens on the off chance it might save a life the balance of liberty that folks will tolerate? I understand our political differences, and I get that a population of former prisoners is probably more likely to give up their liberties. But ask yourselves. Is it worth it? Is hiding really the answer? In the US, we have mask mandates, and frankly those aren't stopping or slowing the current spike. My state has mandated masks for months. We still both have, and continue to report folks testing positive, and yes, some folks go to hospital, and a very small percentage of them die. But that doesn't diminish the fact that our citizens are still socially distancing, and wearing masks, and we're still having infection spread. And, mostly, in my area, the daily floating average of active infections far exceeds hospitalization, my something like 100 to <1. Meaning the 99.6% of active infections aren't in the hospital, of which 2% of those hospitalized of the total died. Those are the facts. Do the math. ~1M folks in the area, less than 6K active cases, of which <100 are currently hospitalized on a day to day basis, and of those,< 2 deaths . Those are the data. That is the science. And yet, ~1Million folks wear masks and socially distance. Explain it. use some science. to explain why we still have that rate of infection.

 

The definition of Trumponians is:

"Unteachable, gullible, stubborn persons who are completely immune to unpleasant facts and, like the disciples, believe their leader even the most brazen lies, defend them as truth / alternative truth. Even if the leader has such obvious BS as" 1 + 1 = 11 " claimed, they defend this as quite possible and everyone who opposes them and says "no 2 is correct" is then someone who spreads fake news!"

Any questions?

 

@FreshAir and @CenterField, you both make good points about Warp Speed and Phizer. I have a little experience dealing with government entities that want to “help” people like me implement pro environmental policy and infrastructure. Sometimes even if the concept is sound and the funding from the government to “help” is tempting, the bureaucratic nightmare of working with government isn’t worth it.

I simply won’t partner with the Federal government on anything and understand Phizer’s position. It’s valid.

The caveat is it has nothing to do with Trump. It’s the same nonsense under Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump. It’s bureaucracy, not who sits in the White House. When government money is offered, its almost certainly meant to modify or influence your behavior. Usually in a way that isn’t positive for you in the long run.

 

So far 12 Missouri Health officials have quit their jobs because of personal threats from trumpees for nothing more than encouraging the use of masks and social distancing. Today the Director of St Francois Medical Center quit.

Health care workers can't do their jobs because of personal threats! It is amazing how much damage the orange puke has done to this country. In her case, she was sent photos of her and her kids at a park. They had been followed and photographed. She said the personal threats were bad enough. But when they threatened her kids, that was it.

 

This is the insanity trump and his supporters have rained down on this once great nation. This is how you "Made America Great".

Before trump, we never heard of or even imagined such insanity.

 

thanks, that was the original quote I saw, but could not find it

 

way less than this die from drunk driving a year, yet we take the peoples freedom to drive drunk... some freedoms can be restricted to save lives, during a declared national emergency for a pandemic, I think masks can be required in high risk situations

 

Interesting association here. Are you claiming, absent evidence of crime that the US government can suspend your rights? Do tell. Did you arrest Chris Cuomo when he violated the state of NYs law on self quarentine, and he threatened a citizen by approaching and then threatening him while he was still within the quarantine restriction? Did Gavin Newsome check into the local jail when he violated his own law in CA? no?

We wear masks everywhere where I live, and yet we still have new infections every day. Explain that.