East Jerusalem should be declared Palestinian state's capital, say Muslim world leaders

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...leaders-palestinians-oic-summit-a8107676.html

Here we can see the first important and relevant consequence of the change of policy regarding ME of US administration. Who has criticized the decision taken by Trump should consider what has happened among Muslim leaders with accuracy.

What is important to underline is that reference to East Jerusalem, not whole Jerusalem. This is an implicit recognition that West Jerusalem can be the capital of Israel and also an implicit recognition of Israel. To have an independent state of Palestine the Arab powers have to recognize Israel [even if in an implicit way].

This is a political move and it's what I was waiting for. We can deal with this and from now on the term of the negotiations will be well more clear.

It's a very important step [which is a consequence of what Trump has done]. Finally the situation is evolving ...

 

The next probable step by those Muslim countries could be to declare their will to open an Embassy c/o Palestine in East Jerusalem [not impossible we will hear this soon, may be Turkey ... let's see].

 

Yes Alpin I read an article about Turkey and this sort of stuff last night.

I am surprised that you are surprised that the Palestinians are only going after East Jerusalem. The Palestinians were never going to ask for all of Jerusalem since Oslo, just East Jerusalem. No one expected them to. The whole Trump issue has been about making it clear they would not get East Jerusalem as their capital. Trump declared Jerusalem the Capital of Israel, not West Jerusalem. He did not say as is common the 'undivided' capital but that is what most people believe this to be especially since Israel has illegally annexed East Jerusalem and has been moving the Palestinians out and claims her Capital is all of Jerusalem. Yes it is the appropriate response but at this time just words. Israel has the facts on the ground in that they control it with their army. The Palestinians are still occupied and have no power so this is just the first step in people standing behind the Palestinians and outing the US as being involved in the peace process due to their bias.

Here is the one I read last night

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-...ld-to-recognise-east-jerusalem-as-pal/9257560

Here are some ideas of what should next happen.

https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2017/12/10/time-one-state/

 

Palestinians won't be satisfied until Telaviv is their state capital - and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hamas isn't working on that right now!

 

100% True.

 

Many Muslim countries don't recognize Israel yet. A further step would be to recognize Israel [not only in an implicit way] when they will recognize Palestine. Otherwise we would fall in a wall against wall situation.

There is who has got the impression that Palestinians [and their Muslim "friends"] oppose the existence of a Jewish State in ME.

I can quote this article [on the site of Israeli INSS, Institute for National Security Studies, so obviously not that neutral]

http://www.inss.org.il/publication/...ael-as-a-jewish-state-strategic-implications/

I do hope this analysis is pessimistic and that Palestinians and their supporters will recognize Israel, demonstrating that they accept the presence of a Jewish state in ME.

 

It is recognition of a 2-states solution indeed. If not the zionist entity, then something else, alien, aggressive and un-invited.

Bad option, IMO; Jerusalem should be the capital of a single, semitic confederation. But you can't propose this to Israel/the US and still be taken seriously...

 

Palestinians recognised Israel in the 1990's. This demand that they now recognise it as a Jewish State is just another intent to stop a settlement. Israel can of course call herself whatever she wants but Palestinians can hardly call a State where about 25% of the population are not Jewish, Jewish. On its simplest level this could be used as an apparent agreement to deport all the non Jewish out.

 

Well, then the Mossad must know - they're the ones that created Hamas.

Palestine causing far less trouble than expected/hoped for, Mossad has to create trouble in their name for the apartheid to continue.

 

If Mossad did then it must be the biggest of all time. I wouldn't think that Mossad did though - the Israelis are smart, not stupid.

 

Yeah - They're so smart sometimes they even outsmart themselves: The Liberty incident, the Lavon affair, the selling of US milspec tech to China, the propping-up of Hamas, the aid and comfort given to ISIL... I think no nation ever applied machiavelian politics as Israel did.

 

Can't comment, because I know nothing about any of them; and I'm not inclined to find out because there's too much global anti-Israeli propaganda to work through to get to the truth.

 

I hope so, but tearing down Arab homes in East Jerusalem to build government apartments for Haredi is not helpful.

 

Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss.

 

I'll take your word for it??

 

Not the Palestinians, the Muslim countries present to the meeting last day and which haven't recognized Israel yet. This was about the recognition of the state. What I was underlining with that analysis is that there are doubts regarding the real political will in Palestine to have a Jewish "neighbor".

Those countries should recognize also Israel recognizing Palestine. And they are expected to recognize the state "as is". Just a recognition.

 

I came across this when I ran into something called Haredi Burqa.. Who knew such a thing existed???

 

What last meeting? I cannot imagine any country recognising Israel as Jewish state for the same reason the Palestinians cannot. Israel had no need to be recognised as a 'Jewish State' at the time of Oslo just being recognised as she was, was sufficient.

Israel has not recognised a Palestinian State so I do not understand where your problem is. The issue is not recognition of Israel. Everyone knows Israel is there. Even anyone who does not want Israel there knows as a fact she is there and supremely armed so that it would be exceedingly unlikely that any Arab country would attack her. Israel is a fact of life in the ME. Everyone knows it full stop.

When Oslo started and the Arab countries believed an acceptable solution was going to be found antisemitism plummeted in the ME. Their argument was political not religious.

Now, many people believe that the Gulf States and possibly Egypt were accepting of Trump's plan which is intended to make a Palestinian State impossible so Israel possibly has these people whatever she does due to their shared animosity towards Iran - or possibly they will need to change their position.

Other countries would recognise a deal which is acceptable to both the Palestinians and Israelis. Obviously occasionally countries do not recognise a country for whatever reason but I would think if it was an acceptable agreement most would be fine.

Now what does all this have to do with people working to organise movements to make sure Trump's illegal suggestions do not come into being and trying to make sure that the US is no longer involved in negotiations on a two or one state solution due to US's obvious bias?

In the meantime and until the Jerusalem issue and other issues which may arise until a satisfactory resolution is found, Israel is likely to see the situation with countries in the Middles East and possibly around the world deteriorate - so do not start asking for more at this time - won't work.

 

Since you won't learn by yourself, you have no choice but to take the others' word for it indeed.

I can't blame you, in some way; what you would have learned would have been most unpleasant it you are a defender of Israel.

 

Not as a "Jewish State", as a state. The have to recognize the State of Israel. Then if the State of Israel has got a Jewish nature ... Italy is Catholic ...


After the declaration of independence [which followed the departure of the British forces], if Arab countries didn't attack, they would have remained on the "right side". Having a say about the existence of Israel without an international agreement [even despite the immediate recognition by US and USSR]. But Arab powers attacked .... demonstrating that they didn't want to see Israel there. Now it would be nice and politically meaningful if they recognize the State of Israel.


What impedes to Palestinians, Arabs, Israelis, Russians and may be Europeans to run peace negotiations without the United States?


Is there someone interested in the matter requiring the American presence?

 

Nonsense, this is still the stated law.

Article 1: Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong Arab national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the great Arab homeland.

Article 2: Palestine, with its boundaries at the time of the British Mandate, is a indivisible territorial unit.

Article 3: The Palestinian Arab people has the legitimate right to its homeland and isan inseparable part of the Arab Nation. It shares the sufferings and aspirations of the Arab Nation and its struggle for freedom, sovereignty, progress and unity.

Article 4: The people of Palestine determine its destiny when it completes the liberation of its homeland in accordance with its own wishes and free will and choice.

Article 5: The Palestinian personality is a permanent and genuine characteristic that does not disappear. It is transferred from fathers to sons.

Article 6: The Palestinians are those Arab citizens who were living normally in Palestine up to 1947, whether they remained or were expelled. Every child who was born to a Palestinian Arab father after this date, whether in Palestine or outside, is a Palestinian............

Article 29: This Charter cannot be amended except by two-thirds majority of the members of the National Council of the Palestine Liberation Organization in a special session called for this purpose.



No such article 29 session has been held to change the law. Letters to Clinton promising that they would in the future doesn't cut it, as we can see, decades later and they still haven't gotten around to it.

 

Very good question, probably because we normally bring buckets of cash to the table...

 

The Arabs were not consulted when the Brits gave away their land in spite of promises to the contrary. What did they expect? Remember that Israelis firebombed the refinery at Haifa in December 1947.

The Zionists have to take some responsibility.. To be a light unto the world requires some effort to make a moral choice.

 

Israel wants to be accepted as a Jewish State She has already been accepted as the State of Israel by the Palestinians. As I said Israel has not recognised the Palestinian State. I am sure when she does that or a one State solution or Federal States or whatever everyone will accept this. You are asking for a one way giving.

Israel was already clearing out Palestinians from what was to be her State. There were also massacres. That is why the arab armies, none to keen eventually came in because their citizens were protesting about what was happening to the Palestinians and because they did not want more mouths to feed and possibly to get a bit more land. Jordan had made a deal with Golda Meir that she would take the West Bank but would not go into territory which was in the UN's partition plan for the Jews. No one spoke of Jerusalem which was to be International but on finding the fighting going on Jordan, aided by the UK took East Jerusalem.

Britain by the way knew what she was leaving the Palestinians to as obviously it was already happening. They said if the Arab Armies did not come in God help the Palestinians. It's all in their archives.

What does this have to do with your OP?

impedes, delays. Not sure what you are talking about here. Things take time.

Not sure where you are here. Is this an invitation for an American supporting Trump's position to join the conversation?