Eastern Europeans making money inflaming right wing nationalis

I am not trying to justify the massacre..youre being ridiculous...but I expect that...
This part of the thread is about the hijab....
People can make up their own minds if they think its oppressive...I do...
You wont answer any direct questions about islam....
But thats typical of you......

 

Italy: Muslim mom shaves head of daughter for not wearing hijab

APR 1, 2017 7:25 AM BY CHRISTINE DOUGLASS-WILLIAMS

The Bologna coordinator of the Muslim community, Yassine Lafram, also took the girl’s side in the matter, stating that according to Islamic tradition “any form of coercion makes the act itself invalid.”

All the prescriptions of Islam, from the Ramadan fast to the pilgrimage to Mecca, “are part of a free choice of the person and no one can impose them, religiously speaking,” Lafram said.

At the same time, Lafram said it is necessary “to help the family, including the mother herself, and to understand what motivated her to carry out this act.”

It is highly unlikely that Yassine Lafram would dare to declare such lies at Al Azhar University in Egypt — the seat of Sunni Muslim jurisprudence, or in Saudi Arabia, which feeds global Wahhabism through petro-dollars, or in Iran.

While it is good that the youngster is receiving protection, Lafram is trying to veil the truth about normative Islam. Perhaps Lafram forgot about how “Islamophobia” hoaxer Yasmin Seweid had her head shaved by her father. Then there was the shocking case in 2002 in Islam’s holiest city of Mecca, where Saudi Arabia’s religious police blocked girls from leaving their school building which was on fire because the girls were not “wearing correct Islamic dress.” As a result, 15 girls burned to death.

That was not an isolated case: women and girls are often brutalized or murdered for not wearing the veil in Islamic states and even by Muslims in the West. They have been brutally beaten, as was the case in Austria when a girl was attacked by a self-styled “sharia patrol” gang for not wearing a hijab. Unveiled women have also suffered acid attacks.

Lafram went on:

it is necessary “to help the family, including the mother herself, and to understand what motivated her to carry out this act.”

The young girl was seeking freedom from the strictures of oppressive Islamic law, which renders women inferior. She decided to rebel and try to enjoy a free life, as other Westerners do. The motivation behind her mother’s cruel act of shaving her daughter’s head was to force Islamic law upon her, and Lafram knows that.

“Italy: Muslim Mother Shaves Head of Daughter Who Refused to Wear Veil”, by Thomas Williams, Breitbart, March 31, 2017:

A Muslim mother has shaved the head of her 14-year-old daughter in Bologna, Italy, on learning that the child was taking off her headscarf as soon as she would leave the house.

The eighth-grade girl would reportedly put her headscarf back on just before returning to the family home, but her deception was eventually caught by her mother on Wednesday, who summarily cut off all her hair.

When the girl arrived to school bald on Thursday, her teachers inquired into what had happened, and when she told them, the school principal decided to inform the police, who took the girl into custody.

Charges of mistreatment and abuse have been brought against the girl’s parents, who are of Bangladeshi origin, and the case has been handed over to the local prosecutor of offenses involving minors, together with the cooperation of social services.

The mayor of Bologna, Virginio Merola, criticized the punishment inflicted on the girl as “unacceptable parental authoritarianism” and warned that “those who come to Italy must follow our laws and our Constitution.”

The Bologna coordinator of the Muslim community, Yassine Lafram, also took the girl’s side in the matter, stating that according to Islamic tradition “any form of coercion makes the act itself invalid.”

All the prescriptions of Islam, from the Ramadan fast to the pilgrimage to Mecca, “are part of a free choice of the person and no one can impose them, religiously speaking,” Lafram said.

At the same time, Lafram said it is necessary “to help the family, including the mother herself, and to understand what motivated her to carry out this act.”…

Of course the NZ PM would not know anything about this, now would she....
The suggestion for everyone, men and women to wear a hijab today is over the top...a knee jerk reaction by a politician who knows diddly squat about islam.

 

then why on a thread about that are you just wanting people to speak ill of Muslims? What other reason is there for that.

No, I was not being ridiculous and this is another personal attack and intent to flame, something done by people with no valid answers.

Actually no. It is not about the hijab. It is about people using as an excuse not to show solidarity with Muslims a claim that it is an oppressive piece of clothing.
You can see below the things you want to talk ab out in a thread about the massacre of 50 Muslims including children while they were praying last week.
Here

You also complain about me not talking about honour killings and incidents in other countries which have absolutely nothing to do with the hijab in New Zealand

Unless whatever this was happened in New Zealand it is absolutely not an excuse not to show solidarity with New Zealand Muslims. Rather saying this to them at this time is making sure to show disrespect. Women in NZ wear a hijab because they chose to. To suggest they are oppressed because they do so is suggesting you are superior to them and know their situation better than they know themselves which would suggest white supremacy which is what the person who committed the massacre believed in.

People can certainly make up their own minds. However if people are using as an excuse that they will not support Muslims because of abuses in other countries, then clearly they are suggesting their position towards Muslims including those who were killed and injured in this slaughter is one of antipathy.

I have to ask this. I hardly know you but given the cheap childish personal attacks you keep making, how young are you?

 

sw and sf,
as you are clearly at unease with Islam (especially in our country, that is my understanding after reading the comments), what would you want to see changed? Do you think we should set up a quota system, of how many Muslim are allowed in?
This might require a new thread, as I don't want to hijack this one.....
But I think we should continue the dialogue, if you are up to as well.
Cats

 

Im 70 darlin...old to know taqiyya when I see it.....and I aint no dhimmi....

 

Apparently the wear a headscarf initiative was also because Muslims in New Zealand have expressed fear of wearing one. Women are always much more visibly Muslims when they wear headscarfs and so in general much more subject to islamophobia abuse. It would appear it was this fear as well as solidarity that the idea of wearing a headscarf in solidarity came from
Now this is the Daily Mail, the UK's most islamphobic paper - and interestingly was the most antisemetic in the 30's. Some things never change but with regard to this

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-following-Christchurch-mosque-massacre.html

Meanwhile I hear 34 people are still in hospital, 5 of whom are still critical, one of those a young child. According to the BBC even if not represented on this forum, there is apparently wide support for Muslims in NZ.

 

Well not exactly....
"I would say that Muslims are very safe in New Zealand, but Islam as a religion is very unwelcome and resentment is building fast, for many very good reasons.

We’re a very diverse and open-minded society, as a whole.

What that means is that, while we will welcome just about anyone as a visitor, we do not welcome restrictive ideologies that attempt to dominate and control our way of life.

Just this week, for example, our daughter had to specially bring non-halal sausages to her school’s sausage sizzle, because her school PTA is now enforcing halal throughout the school, despite the Muslim population locally being less than 1%. A single Muslim parent demanded it, and now the community is at loggerheads. Everyone at the sausage sizzle has to eat special Muslim food, according to the Muslim parent! (I kid you not.)

Likewise, our entire lamb industry is now halal. Once again, Islamic pressure. We have to hunt hard to find non-halal meat. In a country with less than 2% Muslims!

This sort of thing breeds huge resentment against the Muslim community and, while most people won’t say anything openly, they will vent their resentment by refusing to employ or befriend Muslims. They will also share such stories and instances, and so the negative feeling grows.

No other community has immigrated here and caused such problems. We have Hindus, Buddhists and Sikh populations - plus other groups from all over the world - who have all come to NZ and have integrated well and contributed. None push their ideology on the culture or on others. Only Islam seems to cause these problems.

So my answer is this: if you want to come to New Zealand, integrate and adopt our culture, customs and way of life, and wish to contribute, you will be as welcome as any newcomer.

But if your goal is to push your way of life and your beliefs and demands upon us, and not contribute at all, and cause strife and dissent, you will not find New Zealand either friendly or welcoming, because you do not deserve either."
Bolding and emphasis not mine...

 

I hear a call on quotas, but I don’t really promote that. I hear a call on not allowing building of population centres, I certainly don’t subscribe to that. If you let them in then they deserve every right that is afforded to every citizen.

Cats unfortunately most refugees are from islamic countries these days, hell I wouldn’t want to live there,?so quotas in my opinion seem to be more to appease the ultra conservative than actually addressing the issue. I believe a reduction in immigration is needed, but then I am advocate for sustainable population.

The issue is how does islam fit in a secular christian society? Right now there is no issue as they are but 3% of the population but in London and Paris they are having tremendous trouble and the percentage is just 15%. So I can only imagine how it would look once equilibrium is acheived.

I ask you a question Cats, why do they not migrate to a peaceful Islamic country like Albania, Indonesia, or Malaysia? These countries share the same belief system and social structures. Why are they picking non Islamic countries?

 

@slipperyfish - Are you sure about the proportion of asylum seekers coming from Islamic countries?
My quote from The Australian is unfortunately behind a firewall,

"Scott Morrison’s elevation as Prime Minister is expected to further reduce Muslim immigration, with the former immigration minister a prominent supporter of Australia prioritising Christian refugees ahead of Muslim asylum-seekers.

Figures obtained by The Australian show the percentage of Muslim refugees resettled in Australia in the past four years has halved from 40.5 per cent to 19 per cent of the total humanitarian program, despite Australia accepting three-quarters of its refugees from the overwhelmingly Islamic nations of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan."
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...e/news-story/ab40b46a25b25b724fb2403c3250379c

 

Are you from New Zealand. Please provide proof so that I know you are not projecting your intolerance on to others.

again are you from New Zealand. If so, I suspect you are a minority. I am amazed that someone from New Zealand would be giving 'justifications' for hatred towards Muslims only one week after a person with such a mentality mass murdered 50 including children and there are still 34 in hospital as a result of his hate including 5 in intensive care, one of whom is a very young child.

Some people however bring love not hate.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...imam-tells-world-leaders-to-fight-hate-speech

Who is the 'we' who are suggesting believe that New Zealand Muslims have the desire, never mind ability to dominate and control New Zealand way of life. What we know is that people of this thinking get their information for Internet forums and that it is frequently wrong information as yours above, never mind them not having the intellectual ability or indeed sufficient knowledge to be able to discriminate.

This clearly makes no sense. Why would your daughter be forced to bring non-hala sausages if as you also say your school is supporting hala. The sausage hala trope was one of the earliest used against Muslims in the UK. Of course it is also against Jews.

Another of the tropes we had here. Do they just hand them on once they have been defeated elsewhere.

No I do not accept that that brings huge resentment against Muslims. I would suggest that is as it always is an excuse to justify the original resentment and possibly the reason you believe it is everyone who thinks like this is because you are going by your associates who likely would have the same mindset as you. Again are you from New Zealand.

I am not going to search for the fake news true news whatever in this. What I notice is that you are using a trivial thing which I suspect is unlikely to have been used in the way you suggested to justify your seeming support of the mass murder of Muslims and in particular your intent to stop Muslims who are frightened of wearing their Hijabs after this, people who clearly are going through severe trauma, not to receive support. The vast number of attacks by racists against Muslims are against women - tearing their Hijab off, terrifying them and more often than not injuring them at the same time and the vast majority of these attacks are done by men.

Even if the school did do that, it would be no excuse for supporting a massacre or even as you clearly have shown arguing against showing support for the women who are terrified from wearing their hijab after this massacre.

so this is you continuing to justify the murder? I can't see what else you are doing.

 

No, Im not from NZ Other posters will confirm that Im from the Gold Coast, Qld...however you did open the door when you said...
"According to the BBC even if not represented on this forum, there is apparently wide support for Muslims in NZ...."

 

No you were suggesting you were from NZ and arguing against their support for their Muslims after the massacre

an Australian being against supporting the survivors says nothing of the behaviour of the people of New Zealand.

I don't know if we have any people from New Zealand here. With Aussies as I said to a new poster some time ago we have quite a few on this forum and that would be include those showing a White Supremacist mindset and those showing a strong informed view which is diametrically opposed to that.

 

Show me the post where I said I was from NZ

 

I did not say you said you were from New Zealand. I said you suggested you were and provided the proof. Please do not say I have said what I have not.

 

So wheres your proof Im from NZ...

 

sf,
I have used *a quota* because it is one possibility of keeping a lid on things, it could be something else. I thought or better had the impression that that might be something which you and sw favor, no offence meant.
How do you know that Muslim are not migrating to Malaysia or Indonesia?
Maybe it is because they like the liberated way/life we enjoy here in downunder, maybe they aren't such hardcore Islamist trying to convince others by any means. Maybe they are just like you and me......
Reg.

 

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...722AF763B6922FE47F95722AF763B692&&FORM=VRDGAR
Hypocritical media....

 

Sally I didn’t quote any proportions or make any comments regarding Muslim migration percentage here in OZ. I stated “most”, but that was probably a lazy effort open to interpretation, but was in relation to worldwide. Sorry to create the confusion.

 

I also misread it- sorry.

 

Yeah my last post was in a bit of a rush, and probably chucked in a couple of offhanded statements so I have sat and done some googling. Sally posed a question that got me thinking.

It appears in the last couple of years the Malaysians have taken in a lot of Myanmar refugees, understandably given the proximity. Not sure under what arrangement, I imagine protection visas. Not much I could find longterm, that wasn’t from either hard right, or extreme left. I give niether much credit.

Indonesia is interesting though. They allow them to stay with no social rights. So they can not seek work nor education. They have no rights to health services other than emergency.

The other thing that stood out was the percentage of men at around 60%-70% far outweighed any other sub demographic. Couldn’t find a reputable age breakdown, UNHCR didn’t provide one, a right wing publication stated 70% were aged under 30.

Indonesia seems to get more Middle Eastern refugees than Malaysia, and most publications are inferring they are waiting on repatriation to OZ. Of course considering Indonesia’s policy.

As I said I don’t think quotas is the answer, not for the refugees anyhow. Maybe for politicians, but That does not help those truly in need.

I am uneasy with Islam Cats, but do not mistake that for unease with Muslims themselves. My neighbour is Muslim, he is also my friend. I am open about my issues with Islam with him. We talk a lot about it. He is very honest with me. Some things he explains to me I totally disagree with, he respects that. He has a lovely wife and two very respectful children. His wife is not allowed to speak with me outside of his presence. She must always walks behind him, and never interupt him. She wears a hijab, and long clothing. For what I can see he treats her well in the confines of their religion, and she seems fine with her life. This is none of my business and I never broach the subject.

I see him as a very moderate and tolerant follower of the faith. So when I asked him the big question of whether Islam can coexist with other religions, I admit I was surprised when he said no. Only in minority. It is the aim of Islam to convert all to the one true religion. It is written. He was honest and I respect that.

Cats I have no idea how to ease this pressure, but one thing I know for sure is that each side howling each other down only exacerbates the issue. Rational debate and respectful conversation is,at this stage, all we have, and we are doing our best to destroy that.

 

Hmmm,
that is an already more extreme example, the Muslim I know (and I had a work colleague for years) are obviously more westernized. But I never asked the question, whether they believe Islam and other religion (in our case Christianity) can coexist. Have to do that in the future, interesting question directed at a Muslim.
Cats

 

Scott Morrison has already cut migration quotas, but I also want to see improvements in women's rights in Islamic culture, I want people to acknowledge the abuses these women suffer and not brush over it or even support it with their ignorance like Jacinda Ardern did.

There are the most horrific things happening people are completely unaware of and when you point them out you are labelled islamophobic.

Example.
Mother jailed in Brisbane for arranging daughters' genital mutilation in Africa
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-21/genital-mutilation-brisbane-woman-jailed/10924058

Women have worked so hard for the rights they have in this country, it should not be taken for granted, Islam can change everything for us in Australia anyone who claims this is not so, is in denial in my opinion.

 

Actually thinking about it I would go so far as ban the wearing of the Hijab, Abaya, Niqab and the Burka etc If they can have laws that force you to wear it why can't we have laws that prohibit the wearing.... there's plenty other things you can wear to cover yourself.

As far as I'm concerned we are protecting their right to abuse women..

 

We have a good relationship, and he is well aware of my disdain for religions.

I don’t view him as extreme, he follows his faith the way he knows. the way he reads it.

 

Muslim women here in Australia do not have to manditorily wear these garments under our laws. “They” choose to.

Through prohibition, no matter how well meaning, you may foster oppression and division.