Educated vs "Non-Educated"

As are the taxes everywhere, Including those dang socialist countries like Norway, Sweden, Germany.........all those countries that offer UHC.

 

Can individuals defend themselves against foreign governments? Can individuals secure their own healthcare? If healthcare is a public good, anything can be a public good.

If force must be used to maintain health for national defense, why not force people to be healthy instead of making the healthy pay to remedy the unhealthy? You keep circling back to intentionally creating free riders.

And they will actively pursue the options that allow them to be as irresponsible with their health and resources as possible.

I’m on the fence about vouchers. The good would probably outweigh the bad. Charter schools are better than nothing but not by much. Religious schools have their place but obviously aren’t right for most people. Parents who care about education are figuring it out on their own without government help now I think. It sucks paying twice to educate your kid, but it’s worth it to many. My parents did it for my brother and I, and we were dirt poor. It’s just a priority thing.

 

laziness- like failing to precisely compose a message, or using that as an excuse for not understanding it?

 

Your math doesn't even make sense.

There are TWO fact here that just plain astonish me:
1. Republicans, including Trump, are still trying to kill the ACA without there bein ANY notion concerning what people will be able to do after the ACA is gone. The idea of killing something as large and important as our nation's method of paying for healthcare without replacing it with an alternative is unbelievably, catastrophically, criminality.

2. NOW Trump is claiming that he saved coverage of preexisting conditions. But, he's been attacking that from before he was president!! And, now he is in COURT fighting to kill that.

He's attempting to kill our healthcare system while LYING about it and presenting NO alternative.

ANYONE who thinks THAT is OK is clearly a sociiopath.

 

In Seattle, the satisfactory private schools (all those not strictly public schools) charge more than $20K per year per student. Public high school is running between $16K and $17K.

Tell me what "voucher" you plan on giving a family of three kids who fact a yearly bill of $60K for private, not for profit school tuition (which doesn't include requirements such as latp tops, lab fees, etc.).

My opinion is that we have solid public schools that are very successful. ANY voucher the state is likely to pass is going to do no more than hand dollars to rich people.

 

I’ve demonstrated other forum member’s math is incorrect. I’m not surprised some aren’t able to understand the facts. It’s SOP for people who only repeat what they are told to believe. That said, the GOP aren’t much better on the subject than Democrats.

 

Well, you certainly don’t understand the point of vouchers, you’ve demonstrated that. Why not just give vouchers for whatever government schools spend per student? Or half what government schools spend. There are a whale of a lot of people who would be thrilled with the 50%.

Why would only rich people use vouchers? That makes no sense. Are you saying only rich people give a crap about education?

 

I know there are mistakes being made on both sides.

I just want to point out that comparing lives saved to the number who died in the way you did isn't enough to prove anything other than that the opoid crisis is real.

And, let's remember that the ACA doesn't change what is actually going on with ER trauma care. Our doctors and nurses have always been totally focused on saving lives.

 

There are plenty of people wanting to become doctors, even at lower wage levels an increase in medical licenses would cause.

We're importing physicians because we don't train enough ourselves.

What "cost cutting schemes" are you talking about? I would have us train more doctors so the supply and demand for doctors--the market--will hold down doctors' wages.

You should study reinsurance.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/reinsurance.asp​

We're not being unfair to insurance companies by saying they can't charge more to some people because they're older or in poor health.

There was no free market in medicine before WW2. We licensed doctors, prescribed medicines, and so on. But it didn't much matter because often there was little they could do for you.

We have an education system badly failing average students. Teachers need to with passion and conviction tell students why they should discipline themselves to get an education so they can control their own lives.

We have to stop the price fixing at the same time we try means tested vouchers. But that means pols will have to step on a lot of toes making money off fixing prices.

We can't allow people to game the system to avoid income redistribution. Unfair to take from someone to give a personal benefit to someone else? Perhaps, but maybe it's partly a matter of using the tax system to level the playing field.

I don't see it and I remind you of the statistic about the bottom 50%. A lot of people feel left out.

Government does both because there is no one else to do either one.

 

No, you just didn't bother to do the math.

Private not for profit schools here cost at least $5K per student year more than public school costs.

So, the family of 3 given the full state expenditure as a voucher would be responsible for the additional $15K.

That is far more than average income families can afford on a yearly basis through middle school and highschool years. For 6 years, that would be $90K.

And, at that point any successful kid would face the costs we charge university students.

 

This trend of median wage vs GDP/employee is a stark illumination of our total ldisrespect of American workers as we work to cut the taxes and boost the pay of executives whether they are successful or not.

 

I did the math. I attended private schools living at, and at times below, poverty level. A voucher for any amount would have helped. Personally, I’m glad I didn’t have a voucher, but not every kid or family has the non monetary assets I had to compensate for the lack of monetary ones. I just don’t see a logical reason not to do it. What about giving people options scares you so much?

Try your math on a family that can swing $15K but not $60K. Or the family with one kid that can swing $5K but not $20K. Every family is different. Options are good.

 

Langleyman's chart shows where our middle class is going.

That with our trillion dollar dollar yearly deficit paints a serious picture of where we're headed. The fact that our economy is doing reasonably well by some measures is not good enough to cover for the fact of median wages returning to about 2008 pre-recession levels.

 

Fine. Now, if the family can't or won't help...?

Trump's health care plan had less than 20% support and he couldn't get it past a Republican Senate. What's your solution?

 

I like to live on the edge of town. But I make my living off of specialized skills that are best utilized in towns. I am aware of a long stream of individuals and concerns to produce a product, that everything is kind of connected to everything else. Where I live and work, the crime rate is very low. I am aware that a strong government is in large part responsible for that. And at the same time I never feel pressured to do anything I don't want to do.

When they deregulated the savings and loans, we got a savings and loans scandal. When they deregulted banks we got the economic crash at the end of lil' Bush's presidency.

Colorado became a state in an effort to prevent neighbors from taking up arms against neighbors, to claim what one claimed. The state is the foundation upon which everything else is based. With a strong government to Grant and protect ones rights and freedoms, then society is just going to devolve into armed camps.

If one studues the history of mankind, one finds a tribal creature who often fights to the death, for resources. Sometimes, just because. Often, just because. Peace has come by one tribe conquering another, and then another, until the accumulated tribes became too large to be easily conquered.

As imperfect as it is, it is a system that has served us quite well. People live twice as long in modern society as they ever did in primitive society. As governments evolve, more and more people are represented, are granted rights and freedoms.

The goal should not be to cripple government, because that gives the unscrupulous a leg up. Rather the goal should be to mold government to the needs of the governed.

 

The catch with that is that we need them all - not just the next tier that are lucky enough to have parents willing to struggle to pay.

And, forking over that kind of money to people who can afford it is not a help. Sucking kids out of our public shools isn't a solution. The solution is to fix our public schools.

 

The net effect of the Republican/Trump tax cuts, is as if the Feds had been taking out a trillion dollar loan every year and giving the money to some of the people, but mostly to the wealthiest. How could the economy not be doing well if one is pumping a trillion dollars a year into it, with no plan to repay.

 

What about the lower wages caused by reduced compensation for unit of care? Just research how Canada is facing shortages of providers...

So there are plenty of people wanting to be doctors, but something like 15% of new ones are already foreign students. Sounds like plenty from other countries who like our wages better. What will happen when they just stay home? Do we lower admission standards?

The more government is involved in healthcare as a payer, the lower provider compensation will go. It’s price fixing. Supply and demand will be out the window. Doctors will take what bureaucrats give them. Or go somewhere else.

Reinsurance is just to spread risk over greater premiums (creates a larger pool). It has nothing to do with preexisting conditions or not basing premiums on actual risks. At least it shouldn’t.

Ironically, you are suggesting reinsurance be used like derivatives were with the sub-prime mortgage crisis you were complaining about earlier. It’s the exact same thing and will end up in disaster as well.

It was more free than now. And there was little artificial demand. That was the point I was making.

Won’t help. Parents are the only answer.

You are onto something here. Try. We should try all kinds of things. We shouldn’t go all in on one thing just because someone else did or because it makes us feel better about ourselves. Try everything, go with what works.

Why is it ok to screw some people but not others? That’s not logical.

If the bus schedule says the bus leaves at 7:00 am and you don’t get your posterior out of bed till 6:57 am and you miss the bus, your feelings of being left out are....just feelings.

No, government can’t protect private property and redistribute wealth or income. It must choose one.

 

The drug companies convinced doctors to prescribe highly addictive pain killing drugs and some people get hooked on a single prescription. Then people are cut off from legal drugs and end up using street crap.

 

How hard would it be to tier vouchers like you love to do with insurance subsidies etc? You guys make too many excuses. You are afraid of something.

I can’t for the life of me figure out what... /s

And you’ve been trying to fix government schools for decades (with $) and they are getting worse. Remember the thing about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

 

Many students are incapable of completing university training. In the spirit of your comment, they should take stock of their interests and abilities, then get the training they require.

Completely unrealistic. A student would be better off living in town and spending the commute time working.

I taught high school students and adults for more than three decades. Would you like to know where some of them are raised?

 

You're all heart.

 

Who said I like the ACA? It's better than what we had before, but it's no answer.

Huh? Obviously, more people getting medical care will cut down on deaths. It probably didn't save nearly as many people as we lost to street drugs.

I should have said I don't think most voters will go along with voluntary cost sharing for themselves. It's a niche solution for some people.

"You?" As I said, there are many programs I support as lesser evils.

 

Public health services are a public good and an essential one at that.

Well, I'm open to less coercive ways of paying for health care. What ya got?

I continue to advocate for solutions I believe are possible.

Some will.

Our K-12 education is failing, especially average kids. Homeschooling is an even bigger flop.

 

The voucher plan will repay customers who payed for private insurance. Medicaid ( which helps support the ACA ) and Medicare pays at the point of service.

Does anyone know what a fking giveaway this will be for insurance companies ?