Egyptian army slaughters protestors

We have loads of choices too and yet it is the same old three/two who gain the power .............so, I took it at the time, was it in Egypt for their election and their PR system is a little more complicated than the European in who actually gains a seat I think. I would have to re read it.

 

From what I have gathered it is not possible to take Islam out of anything in life so of course it would be there in their Constitution to some degree. I did ask Egyptians at the time why don't you take Islam out, they said it would be so complicated and take so long it would be almost impossible to do and not worth trying. So we cannot expect it to be totally without an Islamic core but ...............it is the degree and the fundi-isms that are the problem are they not?

Dusty I can't pretend to be a know all here, I am not. And I shan't now repeat anything I have already written above. The links show that for many it was all a very complex matter and as for the referendum, who even understood it and it was rushed, since I wasn't, at the time, paying it much attention because the whole thing saddened me so much I don't know why people didn't vote.

I think it has been a combination of things which has bought Egypt to where they are don't you? It usually is ........


I didn't think there should have been an election so soon after Mubarak left. I was sure it would lead to something like this or worse. Sadly it is this that may have halted the worse but ........it too will have sad consequences..

Our form of democracy has taken centuries to become as imperfect as it is. The Egyptian revolutionaries asked for time, they asked that the Military hold the fort for at least a year before elections and to give them time to write a constitution and ects .......... Maybe now after blood has needlessly been shed that is what will happen.

And in a Land where so many are uneducated and those disfranchised ones have been under the spell of Mubarak appointed fundi Clerics and Imams for so long we also have to realize that democracy as we know it is not alone the answer to Egypts needs if she wants her people to be educated and free and she a prosperous and a happy place. Time ..................

 

We are not the only nation supporting the army in Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain all give much more than we do. We are in the unenviable position of supporting the army that most of the urban population supports and paying lip service to the elected government we promised to acknowledge as legitimate. Support Morsi and the majority of the population we be against us, support the army and go back on our promise. Obama will play for time, letting the events play out until the real power brokers are evident and then make a deal. If we end support we also lose all influence in Egypt now and forever, Morsi does not like us anyway and will not return the favor. This is how it will pan out, you can whine about our lack of ethics but we are playing a longer game encompassing the whole Middle East and trying to extricate ourself without endangering our allies. Once oil is taken off the import necessity list there will be little leverage against us and our hand will be stronger.

 

really, are they posting on this forum then? The ones who appear to disagree with those of us on the ground here don't appear to live here.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/member-casual-chat/317480-they-killed-egypt.html

 

There was a statement read out on TV from him

I said while ago that this was more than about Egypt. This is also about Qatar versus Saudi for top position in Gulf. They hate each other and the rise of Qatar is making Saudi very nervous and we are also caught in the middle of their tribal fight and it is also in Syria.

I really feel that there is going to be a big shake up in the middle east. US foreign policy is a disaster and we might be finding Gulf now they realise the importance of Egypt that it aligns itself with Egypt for it's own safety. This is also about ideological Islam and I have been saying all along that we are seeing a battle for Islam and what real Islam is and people now realising Wahabism is terrorism and Egypt will not accept that ideology that has been poured over us from Saudi.
It's a big mess with many actors.

He is a good actor.

This is what happened earlier in fateh mosque.
Ikhwan inside were screaming on TV saying police were tear gassing them live on TV and they could not breathe. BBC etc were interviewing them live.
BUT as you see just like the 'actors in the other video I and Syrian Girl reposted they are acting for the foreign media.
The ikhwan was actually not being tear gassed bUT releasing a fire extinguisher to create the smoke then say it was tear gas then sms the images out of Fateh Mosque to media. They are just liars! here is the proof


The presser was saying what we are saying here that the whole story is not being told by foreign media who only show one side and if Obama relies on Fox then it's obvious that they will side with the terrorist ikhwan.

Egyptian American relations never been so low!! Saudi might just have to choose between them in coming future


[video=youtube;iF86OFjr0vk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iF86OFjr0vk#at=29[/video]

 

Let me explain again

Egypt has French Law system but it is a Muslim majority country.
Muslims have their own sharia and that is for family law
Christians have their own family law so the constitution part talking of Sharia only means that ALL Egyptians will be tried under French law for criminal cases and again I repeat!!!!
Muslims family law is under sharia and Christian is under Christian judges in family law.

The fact that Christians ask for sharia!!!! is because their own church does not allow them to divorce and re marry SO many turn to sharia to get help in that family law problem or convert to Islam. The problem is with the church not recognising divorce and has nothing to do with us Muslims.

Egypt is very different to some other countries like Saudi where sharia is only the law. Egypt has mix of French and Sharia and if you read constitution you see it states 'principles of Sharia' because it has to cover inheritance rights, divorce rights and no man can be put to death penalty unless it is in agreement with Islamic fiqh through Al Azhar who can pardon and overrule a death sentence from the French part of the law.

 

Ezbekia Police station under attack by ikhwan

police fire tear gas

ikhwan fire bullets

police then fire live rounds.......... in that order

tell me what Western policeman wouldn't do the same thing if being targeted by live rounds?

Foreign media were reporting only the police firing live rounds part!

[video=vimeo;72524095]http://vimeo.com/72524095[/video]

 

Michael Georgy

editing by Andrew Roche)

 

They? You mean she! It was one lady trying to pull that stunt. There's no way you can blame 700 people trying to put on an act. In fact, if you watched the camera feed, while she was doing her fake, overdramatic hack-and-couph, everyone else were standing around like nothing was happening. They weren't playing along, which proves it wasn't an organized stunt.

Unlike the police, that orchestrate brutality in uniform, working together, as a team and under the same broad objective, people have to take isolated incidents to try to condemn the opposition, as you are doing.

While at the same time, police are massacring hundreds. But you can't condemn THAT.. No distract us with a fire extinguisher.

You're only showing one side. Why were the police beseiging a religious sanctuary and makeshift hospital in the first place? What danger did the people inside, huddling for safety, present? Why did police drag people out so they could get brutally beaten by iron bars? Why'd they remove everybody, so the patients inside couldn't be treated? Forgot to mention any of that.

Interfering with medical care is a war crime. Firing off a fire extinguisher is not.

As far as propaganda stunts and trying to influence the media, what would you call using snipers to shoot and kill cameramen trying to document the Wednesday massacre? And if the response were reasoned, why would they need to kill people filming it?

 

Tamarrod leader on USA

that guy had more than 23 million Egyptian signatures out of 25 million eligible to oust Morsi

Anti US feeling has never been higher in Egypt

 

The Blood of Egypt is on Obama's hands, and American heads.​

The coup would have never, ever happened without an Obama "Greenlight" if not a push.
There is no reason America could not have simply 'waited out' the Islamic government of President Mursi.
Similar to Erdogan of Turkey, his support in future elections was looking doubtful.
It was impatient, impertinent, and improper and down right colonial masteresque; for Obama to have approved a coup as if he could manage the reigns of any Islamic nation in turmoil. As if any outside influence could.

It was reported today that Lindsay Graham and McCain too are supporting Rand Paul's call to end aid to Egypt.
The same call they opposed hardly a few days ago.
And here Barack gave the Egyptian military his assurance of continued aid and the State Department merely refuses to define what ended the Mursi government because it is "not in their interest to do so".

This is a mess for the image of America as a trustworthy ally.
This is a mess of messing with the internal affairs of another nation.
I only wish it was an impeachable offense. Oh NO, Then There Is Joe - good defense against impeachment and removal from office.

Moi
Shame On Obama,
He Brings Shame On Us All

 

what are you talking about??? what one lady?


as for the bolded part

I have no idea what YOUR media was telling you BUT these are the facts

It was not the police as you say besieging Al Fatah Mosque

It was the residents so get your facts straight before posting

the police were trying to stop the residents who were sick of the ikhwan like we all are storming the mosque and beating them up and were in the middle negotiating!

Really it is unbelievable the rubbish that we have to put up with written here by people out of Egypt who know nothing except edited highlights and selected shots.

Try tuning into full coverage next time

 

It's not a military coup de tat, it's a "military intervention".. lol. Okay. It's not a car; it's an automobile!

Best ever sound bite came from the WH junior on Wednesday: He said the higher-ups (who knows who he's talking about) had, "determined not to make a determination".. LOL

BTW, if you desire an impeachable offense for Obama, he's given us plenty. For example, treason by support AQ in Syria. I can't think of a higher crime or misdemeanor than that.

 

So how many then?

There's video of police trying to force their way inside, and occupants trying desperately to body block. There's video of this.

The mosque occupants said they didn't want to leave because they were afraid of both the residents and the police. Yet the police still dragged out people to get beaten by these people with iron bars. You say they were trying to protect these people from the mob, so how come they dragged people out and placed them right at the feet of the angry mob, to be beaten?

They were communicating with the mosque occupants, trying to get them out. Why? If they were in danger by the residents, why would THEY need to be negotiated to? They went to the mosque for safety. They would be safer INSIDE the mosque. If they wanted to stay safe, why did they force them OUT of the place they were safe?

What did the police do to stop the residents? On Wednesday, they stopped the peaceful sit-ins by firing live ammunition at unarmed people, killing women and children, running people over with tanks and bulldozers, firing teargas etc.

What did they do to "stop" these residents huh?

If this was merely to protect the mosque occupants, how come they went and arrested hundreds of them afterwards? How many of the residents you say were besieging them were arrested by police? Why wouldn't they allow anyone to stay to treat the wounded?

 

yarab habibi yarab........................

my dear!!

Obama had nothing to do with coup and would be actively against it and it shows even Egyptian illiterate peasants are far smarter than average Americans.

Obama would love 20 years of Ikhwan rule

You know why

because a government led by a murshid is much easier to deal with than a diverse population who are generally very placid quiet likeable funny people who have different idea than turning Egypt into Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.

If you knew Egyptians which I see now there are no one here who does except those who live here you would know that it takes a lot to upset us because of our quiet nature BUT when you do you will see fire and that is what you are seeing now. Decades of suppressed anger coming out and there are many reasons for that and many to blame.

Obama and the West counted on us quiet Egyptians following their rules because we were terrorized if we said anything back.

That fear has gone forever now and the world will just have to deal with a new Egypt. One who will not be ruled by a ideological murshid like a zombie or by those that support him and the quicker you all realise this the better we can all move into another phase. Your foreign policy has been a disaster and it is not just Obama because it goes way back.

Americans need to get wise because your credibility in just about everything is at zero point globally and to even think about you holding Palestinian peace talks is another big joke to the world. Only a fool would believe your intentions were honest. They never have been from day 1

 

Some of us on the ground here read both sides of this tragedy and view news outlets whose agenda are blatantly with one side or another. Tell me which news outlets you read and watch.

 

yarab habibi yarab........................
We need to change the wind's direction... Allah is trying to tell his followers something .. BUT they do not listen.
The pile of corpses will keep growing until Muslims stop the violence and seek peace with the rest of the world.

 

No need to insult.

Obama is supporting the coup by CONTINUING the free cash/weapons aid to them, even now.

If he supported the opposition, he would be arming and funding and training them, like he does for the Syria opposition.

 

they were trying to establish another sit in in the middle of the city of Cairo. Pure and simple. Neither the people of Egypt want this, the businessmen in this district don't want this, the residents of this area don't want this.

 

Yarab!!! why am I having to tell you what happened! can you not watch things live?

Really I dont know where to start with your questions because it was all seen live!

First after 12 hours of negotiations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! some agreed to leave under police protection SO THEY WERE NOT DRAGGED OUT AS YOU SAY by police!!!

The ikhwan were afraid to leave because they had gunmen inside and knew they were in big trouble !!!!! the innocent or smart ones left under escort.

Show me this video of the beating with the iron bars

There was some residents!!! attacking the ones who left BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!! and Fox will not show you this part there were residents outside who went to the shops to buy them drinks and food even though they were there to protest at them besieging their local mosque!!!!!! Ask Fox to show you that part and look at the footage inside where you will see the drinks the residents brought them.

Really I dont have time for this kind of thing where your TV only shows you some parts and I am supposed to fill in the gaps every time for you all. Look on U Tube for evidence or add Arab Sat to your cable package to see what is happening live from all angles of the camera

It's not my job to educate Americans thousands of miles away out of touch with what is going on so I just post what I can to counter so much rubbish here being written

 

actually FOX news has been more objective than CNN etc

 

ya bateikh!

 

No need to discuss posters. Discuss issues. Did you want to dispute anything I said or answer anything I asked?

 

Thank You
You know I appreciate your vantage point in all this.
However, I just do not believe, regardless of your assurances -
that the Egyptian military would have attempted this move without Obama's assurances.
As independent as they may be, The Egyptian Military has become dependent on American aid.

Thanks again for your point of view.
I know lots of Obamites who would love to hear you say he didn't do it, but I am not going to tell them


Moi