Elon Musk warns of SpaceX 'bankruptcy'

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Destroyer of illusions, Dec 2, 2021.

  1. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Capitalism has outlived its usefulness.
    If the richest man has declared possible bankruptcy, then what about the rest of the people?
    Not a single person under capitalism can feel protected.
    You think that you are successful, you have a home, a job, some deposits and retirement savings? Do you feel confident about the future?
    Turn on your brain. You live in capitalism. Therefore, you will never be protected.
    For example, you work for Musk and think you caught God by the beard. But here's an example - anyone can go bankrupt. You will lose your job and instantly lose your credit rating. You can be thrown out of your house, confiscated and practically naked thrown into the street.
    And the worst thing, is that all will give a damn about you and your problems. Because capitalism is what cultivates selfishness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  2. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Everything has risk. At least with capitalism it's mostly your own fault if you take on too much risk and don't insure yourself. When it comes to socialism, it's out of your control and in the control of government officials who might know very little about your industry or might be more concerned with their reelection or bribes from your opposition than your business.
     
  3. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    VERY well said!
     
  4. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    You do not understand what you are writing. Under socialism there is no unemployment as a phenomenon.
    Socialism is a planned economy. You cannot go bankrupt under socialism. Under socialism, there is even no such thing as bankruptcy - everyone is confident in the future.
     
  5. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I saw full employment in communist CzechoSlavakia days after the Iron Curtain came down. I went into a small shop to buy some toothpaste. One guy took my order, another got the paste, another put it in a bag, another took my money and gave me a receipt which I took to another guy that gave me the tooth paste. Great system, huh?

    Socialism stifles innovation and motivation. We've seen it fail in the Soviet Union and various other places. It kills ambition. It would be the same here.
     
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  6. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not sure you can dismiss an general economic concept on the basis of a single trash-tabloid article about one unique business.

    This isn't about Musk personally going bankrupt, just the alleged concern that the company might. Companies go bust all the time but others are started all the time too. In an otherwise stable economy, it will balance out overall.

    That is a gross exaggeration. Most people are able to survive unemployment for a short period, they just need to look for another job. Of course, a key reason for that is that most successful nations are not pure capitalist but have practical mixed models with well regulated capitalism alongside elements of socialist support for those in most need. This entire war between the extremes of capitalism vs socialism has long been an irrational fantasy on both sides.

    Rubbish. Selfishness is human and it exists everywhere, regardless of (even despite) economic or social structures.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
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  7. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    You are not at all familiar with the economic concept of socialism. I don't know what you actually saw in Czechoslovakia, but what you saw has nothing to do with the economy of socialism.
    Only a complete ignoramus can say that the USSR collapsed because of the socialist economy.
    In the USSR, socialism was only under Comrade Stalin. After the death of Comrade Stalia, socialism in the USSR ceased to exist. And this did happen not for economic reasons. The reasons were 100% political.
    Therefore, first study the issue, and then you will be able to speak consciously on this issue.
    And, by the way, under socialism, the USSR in the shortest possible time from a poor and illiterate country became the second economy in the world, with the best education system in the world, and controlled half of the world.
     
  8. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Well-Known Member

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    Time is the most honest person. We will see.
     
  9. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    The final days of the Soviet Union were characterized by hunger. In a desperate effort to feed its people, the Kremlin gave 5% of the land to the farmers that worked it, so that they would be motivated by being able to sell the food for profit. That 5% soon outproduced the other 95%, but it was too late and the Soviet Union collapsed.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  11. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Newly Registered

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  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No, but possibly a business that depends 100% on government for its revenue probably doesn't belong in a capitalist system. I would say the same thing about any of the defense contracting companies.

    The employees of SpaceX will lose their jobs.

    Protected from what? A bankruptcy? We have thousands of bankruptcies in the U.S. every year.

    Protected from what? Freedom?

    Or you can find a new job. I did that a few times when I worked for people other than myself. Capitalism doesn't cultivate selfishness. It cultivates wealth. No selfishness required.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  13. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    Enough about Musk. There are millions of other companies. My grandad worked for Tom Edison, and my dad worked for Consolidated Edison in New York. Its still going strong. I have worked for Lockheed and Boeing. Both great companies that I enjoyed being a part of. Musk may be in trouble... so what? From Campbell's Soup to Marriott Hotels, from General Motors to General Foods... there are lots of successful American companies doing quite well.... for many decades I might add.
     
  14. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct, under capitalism, YOU personally reap the benefits or losses. Under Socialism, WE all suffer the misery. Musk is a pillock, I'm surprised anything he does keeps going.
     
  15. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    Oddly enough, I think many, many businesses in the world are well overdue to go bankrupt. Too much government propping. I actually don't think SpaceX is one of those, but we'll see.

    I think your black and white view of capitalism vs socialism is too simplistic. Existing capitalist systems have a decent amount of socialism built-in.
     
  16. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    I think with socialism comes a lot of authoritarianism. I lived in East Germany for a while, when it was East Germany and yes there was always food and it was quite safe. But what a bleak place! Everybody looking over each other's shoulder and dobbing each other in. There were more 'problems' in West Germany, but we all knew where the East Germans would prefer to be.
     
  17. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    Musk is the man. We'll have him if you don't want him.
     
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  18. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Musk is in America, I'm in the UK. You're welcome to him, just don't bring him to the UK.
     
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  19. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Musk is just trying to sell more rocket launching services for satellites to the US Government. Thing is the USG already has about several trillion dollars of such services already in use. Musk should put his money into developing Fusion energy where he's not competing with the largest entity that has ever existed, the United States Government.
     
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  20. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member

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    He may have already deemed (practicable) Fusion Energy impossible :(
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2021
  21. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You got your toothpaste right?

    Can you clarify why you believe that?
     
  22. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even if capitalism is destined to completely disappear somehow, now amount of time is going to make your statements that I addressed any less wrong. I wasn't (directly) challenging your general opinion of capitalism, I was challenging the logic behind your linking this specific report to that general opinion.
     
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  23. Hey Now

    Hey Now Newly Registered

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    Can't argue with this nugget.
     
  24. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Then he's wrong. They have practicable Fusion energy now, just nobody has both the money and the political courage to build the first plants, which will be outrageously expensive at first.
     
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  25. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I read the article from the OP and left me wondering the same. In a previous thread (http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-can-explain-how-money-would-be-spent.593773/) Musk stated he would liquidate the shares with a conditional challenge. Now, in the article from this thread, we're reading that he liquidated his shares and reduced his tax rate. And he managed to throw an exiting executive under the bus. Something's amiss here...
     

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